Still to be Addressed

[klaiggeb]

No question, we still have a ways to go before the season begins.

But if Sabean really believes that the Giants can again get by with a Blanco/Torres-like platoon in LF, IMHO, he's sadly mistaken.

In fact, I'll take it one step further, I don't like to think of Blanco as any more than a 4th outfielder.

Period.

To think that he'd start everyday vs RHP is scary-bad.

Choo, and Ellsbury, and every other big name free agent out there being in a Giant uniform was never going to happen.

But before we get to Spring Training, Sabean has to address LF.

As much as I like Perez, a Perez/Blanco platoon would not be wise.

I would still rather move Belt to LF, pick up a catcher and move Posey to 1B than Perez/Blanco.

And trust me, Belt to LF and Posey to 1B are NOT my first choices.

IMHO, it's just a better option than what we currently have.

boly

[allenreed]

Torres is gone. He's a FA and I don't think they're going to re-sign him. I agree with you on Blanco. Backup. Nothing more.

[rxmeister]

Gregor Blanco is a very tough player to judge. You watch him everyday and you think he's not that good, and then you check his stats at the end of the year and he's actually got good numbers. I think his stats are misleading because he's so streaky. When the Giants needed him most last year he had a horrendous slump, but he got hot at the end with the Giants out of it, or as Boagie would say, he pulled a Beltran. I think the Giants have said some weird contradicting stuff this offseason that makes me wonder what their real plans are. Sabean said they have lots of money to spend, then he said they didn't. He said that Vogey was the fifth starter for sure, then he said probably. He said they want an every day left fielder, then they said platoon partner. They said they might get a first baseman and move Belt to left, and now they said no. They were one of the highest bidders on Abreu. My own personal guess is that after saying they have lots of money they realized that agents would use that statement against them and now they're crying poor to hold down the demands. I guess we 'll know better when the meetings are over.

[Islandboagie]

When we needed Blanco the most he hit a 2-run homerun in the 4th game of the NLDS against the Reds. When we needed him the most he singled and scored the first run in the 5th and deciding game. When we needed him the most he performed beautifully in the field during the World Series. And most importantly, when we needed him the most he didn't pull himself out of the game. Don't compare the two, as far as what each player has done for the Giants there's really no comparison.

[sfgdood]

Blanco is fine as a platoon guy but when Pagan went down and we had to play him every day, he couldn't hang that well. His defense is superb so we never had to worry about that. But even his splits against righties suffer when he's playing every day.

As I have said before, the Giants will most likely bring in someone to platoon with Blanco to start the year, and then bring in someone midseason to take over full time.

~Dood

[rxmeister]

You're talking 2012, Boagie, I'm talking 2013, and we live in a world of what have you done for me lately? Gregor hit .169 and .226 in July and August as the Giants fell out of contention and into the basement. When we needed him to step up with Angel Pagan out, he crapped the bed. I admire your loyalty to players who contributed in 2012 and 2010 as you've shown in previous posts, but you have to look at the team going forward when you make your decisions. I think if you were the GM, Aubrey Huff would still be playing 1B and Barry Zito would have been re-signed. I think Sabean shares your same loyal feelings though, and I think it actually hurts us. Except for Tim Hudson, he's basically spent all his money putting the same team back together again instead of finding better players. The only thing we agree on is re-signing Tim Lincecum, although I bet we agree because of different reasoning. I wanted him back because I thought he had found something the second half of 2013, while you wanted him back because he contributed so much to our two championships. The GM of the current world champion Red Sox, Ben Cherington, said the other day, "the two worst mistakes you can make is sentimentality and standing pat." I think that's why the Red Sox will be great again next year after winning it all, and the Giants had to play veterans all September to avoid the embarrassment of coming in last after winning it all the year before. There's no place for sentiment and past appreciation when you're spending millions of dollars to build a team.

[klaiggeb]

Torres is gone. He's a FA and I don't think they're going to re-sign him. I agree with you on Blanco. Backup. Nothing more.

---boly says---

Allen: You misread my post. I said "a Blanco/Torres LIKE platoon," not that THEY would platoon.

In other words, 2, fourth or fifth outfielders in a platoon won't cut it.

i.e. Perez/Blanco.

Hey, I really LIKE Blanco. But not as a starter.

As Mark said, he's too streaky, for one thing, and his cold streaks last forever, and even when he's hot... he's not a run producer NOR a top of the line up kind of guy.

We can do better.

In fact, MY suggestion from November, though NOT my first choice WOULD produce more runs.

Belt in LF
Posey at 1B
Sanchez -C

With Blanco being a late inning defensive replacement for Belt, and Belt for Posey at 1B.

NOT my first choice, but still better than what we did last year.

boly

[Islandboagie]

Actually, Boly, the platoon of Blanco and Torres did work. It's the point in which they both were starters that didn't work. They took a gamble on Pence and Pagan staying healthy and got burned. That's why I say beefing up our depth on the bench should be an issue Sabean needs to address.

In our two championship seasons we had the depth. In 2010 we had Uribe to play when Renteria was injured, or when Pablo was too fat. We brought in Fontenot later in the season who played well. We had Torres backing up in the outfield, plus a plethora of veteran outfielders (Burrel, Ross and Guillen) who were acquired late in the season. Ishikawa and Schierholtz were among the best pinch hitters that season. And of course, we had Posey and Bumgarner waiting in the wings. Plenty of depth.

Granted, in 2012 many of our pieces were in place. We had a more solid lineup everyday. But there were still problems to fix throughout the season. Like every season, Pablo went down with an injury, but we had Theriot and Arias to pick up the slack. Of course Cabrera got popped, but we had Blanco to save the day. Part of the season Belt was struggling, so we saw Posey play at first and Sanchez catch. We Didnt have too many issues to fix, but we did have the depth to keep the season rolling.

Last year we just Didnt have the depth. When Pagan went down we didn't have the depth to keep us on top, we saw a rotation of outfielders who never really stuck. When Scutaro and Pablo went down we were in big trouble. Some of our bench players made nice plays, had good hits, but nobody really came in and solidified a spot.

I'd like to see more depth in 2014.

If we get a starting LF I think we could stick with someone like Perez as our 5th outfielder. But I'd much rather see the 5th outfielder as a legitimate pinch hitter and starter if something goes wrong. Blamco can start in center or right if needed, but he should be a defensive replacement/pinch runner.

I like Arias, but I don't see him as a guy who can sustain a starting role. I see him more like Blanco, defensive replacement, perhaps a pinch hitter.

Basically, next year, we need a Ryan Theriot and Pat Burrell.

[sfgdood]

Boagie's right...even in the 2013 season, Blanco as a platoon player was more than adequate. It was when Pagan was hurt that things werent working out so well and the Giants fell out of the race. When Pagan returned, the team started playing pretty damn well again, including Blanco.

~Dood

[klaiggeb]

Boagie's right...even in the 2013 season, Blanco as a platoon player was more than adequate. It was when Pagan was hurt that things werent working out so well and the Giants fell out of the race. When Pagan returned, the team started playing pretty damn well again, including Blanco.

--boly says---

Randy, you and Boagie both make good points.

It doesn't however, change my perspective; I don't want to see THAT kind of platoon in LF.

We need to do better, and we can. The question is WILL Sabean.

boly

[sfgdood]

Here are some facts for you, Boly...Sabean already has said he isn't targeting any big ticket FA outfielders (he has said that from the start of the offseason). So you can knock that off your list. The Giants have also said they don't plan on trading any of their top pitching prospects for a left fielder and they have no plans for moving Belt to LF and acquiring a 1st baseman. So the best you can hope for via trade would be a journeyman who would be no more than a platoon guy whatever team he ends up on.

As I have said all along--after hearing it from both Baggerly and Schulman--is that the Giants will continue to look for someone to add all season long, much like Burrell and Ross in 2010.

~Dood

[sfgdood]

I will say this much...it would be unlikely that anyone on this board would be whining about getting a left fielder now if Bobby Evans had proven to be truthful about acquiring a "big name" international FA.

~Dood

[klaiggeb]

Here are some facts for you, Boly...Sabean already has said he isn't targeting any big ticket FA outfielders (he has said that from the start of the offseason). So you can knock that off your list. The Giants have also said they don't plan on trading any of their top pitching prospects for a left fielder and they have no plans for moving Belt to LF and acquiring a 1st baseman. So the best you can hope for via trade would be a journeyman who would be no more than a platoon guy whatever team he ends up on.

As I have said all along--after hearing it from both Baggerly and Schulman--is that the Giants will continue to look for someone to add all season long, much like Burrell and Ross in 2010.

---boly Says---

Randy, I had read and heard all of what you pointedout, and I was NEVER trying to make a case for a big name FA.

They all came with too much baggage, usually giving up a draft pick, or even more money than was logical.

MY point was, and is, that Sabean CAN do better than a Torres/Blanco-Perez/Blanco LIKE platoon.

Like you, I'd be FINE with a Burrell or a Ross. THAT'S all I'm expecting, nothing more.


And as I also said, it's NOT my first choice to move Belt to LF... but IF something pops up, Sabean could and would change his mind.

I know if I were running the circus and if it HELPED the team, I'd do the same.

boly

[allenreed]

Just because Sabean says it doesn't make it so. I've seen him say they weren't going to do something, and then they'd turn around and do it.

[rxmeister]

A lot of what Sabean says are negotiating tactics, so don't believe everything. (or maybe anything!) By the way, I haven't heard him say he wouldn't trade a top prospect for a left fielder. In fact I'm pretty sure that's his plan. How else can he possibly get one, other than free agency?

[sfgdood]

both Schulman and Baggs have reported that Sabean and/or Evans have stated that the top pitching prospects are off limits

~Dood

[rxmeister]

So you believe them and I don't, which is why we're disagreeing here. Crick and Escobar are untouchable for sure, but I believe all of the others are available for the right price.

[Islandboagie]

I'd say even Crick and Escobar are available for the right price.

[sfgdood]

I say Price (David) would indeed have to be involved.

~Dood

[klaiggeb]

I say Price (David) would indeed have to be involved.


---boly says---

What distrubs me is that EVERY report I read, or hear, gives the Dodgers the inside track on Price.

THAT kind of a deal is a division/world series changer.

Me? I give up a LOT not to just get Price, but to keep him from going to LA.

But that's me.

boly

[rxmeister]

Price is about to become pricy though. (I apologize for that !) I wouldn't touch him because he's got two bad things going for him. Not only are you going to have to give him 150-200 million to keep him, you're going to have to trade a ton to get him. That's basically the worst of two possible worlds. One thing you don't like doing is spending a fortune on a free agent and another is giving up your best prospects for a player. It's bad enough to do one, here you have to do both. If the Giants were to trade an elite prospect or two, it should at least be for a player who is controllable for at least a couple of years, who won't be leaving you empty handed in a year or so.

[sfgdood]

I would expect the Giants to only trade for Price if they already were reasonably certain they would be able to re-sign him. In that scenario, I'm not opposed to the trade because Price is a proven dominant big league stud...now. The prospects have potential but are unproven and wont help us at all before 2015.

~Dood

~Dood

[rxmeister]

Dood, at this point Price would probably be asking for Greinke money to forego free agency, and not too many teams would risk that kind of money on an arm, and I wouldn't expect my team to be one of them. Especially when you consider my team just finally got out from the Zito deal. One thing the Giants don't need is a third long term pitcher signed with all the young arms they have. I agree that prospects don't always pan out, but when you've got as many as they have you're pretty much assured that you have it covered. There's no point in taking the risk.

[klaiggeb]

Dood, at this point Price would probably be asking for Greinke money to forego free agency, and not too many teams would risk that kind of money on an arm, and I wouldn't expect my team to be one of them

---boly says---

Which is precisely my concern, Randy. The Dodger HAVE that kind of money to spend, and really don't seem to care how much or for how long, as long as they win.

boly

[allenreed]

Geez, can we play at least some of the season before we concede? The Dodgers won the division last year, then were bounced in the playoffs. Big deal. I'm not sure I would put them up as a dynasty quite yet.

[sfgdood]

All I'm saying is IF the Giants are going to consider trading Crick or Escobar, it should mean a proven arm will be coming back in return that either includes team control or is someone they don't expect to lose soon in free agency. I mentioned Price because he is the only stud pitcher being shopped right now. Personally I would love to see him come here because as Boly said, the Dodgers are after him and also the Japanese stud. It's becoming an embarassment of riches down in LA and the Giants can't just sit back and HOPE that in a couple of years their prospects become what we want them to be. The Giants have to be more proactive and bold because the Dodgers arent going to run out of money anytime soon.

~Dood

[allenreed]

Money doesn't always do it. Let's play some games first.

[allenreed]

Actually, I've heard Scherzer, Chris Sale, Cole Hamels and Cliff Lee's names being banied about as well.

[sfgdood]

Love Sale and Scherzer. Not as sold on the Phillies pitchers, mostly because of their salaries, especially Hamels who is signed at $22 mil per through 2018. Lee is only signed for 2 more years ($50 mil) which is good because he is no spring chicken. Don't think Id give up Crick or Escobar for either of them. I'm curious why Chicago is giving up on Sale so early when he's been lights out his entire young career. I think in return they'd want someone more major-league ready than either of our guys. I don't believe Detroit is still shopping Scherzer now that they've cleared payroll space with the Fielder deal and they also dealt Fister earlier. A Scherzer trade now would cripple their starting staff.

~Dood

[rxmeister]

I've heard that Sale and Scherzer are not being traded. Detroit doesn't think they can re-sign Scherzer, but they've decided to hold onto him anyway. I also read that the Sale rumors are more teams asking about him than the White Sox looking to move him. They're being told no Sale at any Price! And speaking of Price, Buster Olney just reported that the Giants have now called Tampa about him. Typical of Sabean to listen to Randy and ignore me!