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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 19, 2013 17:06:43 GMT -5
That's exactly what this Met lineup is; Fish maggots.
As a coach, even as a player, LOSING to a group like that is INexcuseable.
Absolutely in excuseable.
If I'm Casilla, or Romo, I'm looking for a hole to crawl into, and dirt with which to cover not just my face, but my entire body!
Harsh? You bet.
Hey, they're major leaguers, I get it. They're going to have high days, and low days...
But those two? Suddenly UNABLE to find the darned strike zone?
Inexcuseable.
Here we are, 9 or 10 games away from the end of the year, (and no longer a coach or player), and I still get ticked off by incompetence.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 20, 2013 5:56:04 GMT -5
Boly -- That's exactly what this Met lineup is; Fish maggots. As a coach, even as a player, LOSING to a group like that is INexcuseable. Absolutely in excuseable. Rog -- I understand what you are saying here, Boly, but due to parity and luck, the better teams don't always win. In a three-game series, one of the teams either sweeps, or one team has two wins; the other, one. The Giants have been the slightly better team of the two, the Mets had the home field advantage, and the Giants' lineup was healthier and/or more fully utilitized than the Mets'. The most likely outcome of the series would appear to be the Giants' winning, two games to one. And that is how it turned out. That the Giants' one loss was so AWFUL makes it appear there was no excuse for their not sweeping the series, and one could (and probably should) argue that way. But the excuse for losing the one game the Giants lost is simply that the better team doesn't always win. On Wednesday night, the Mets were the better and/or luckier team -- even though until the 9th inning it certainly didn't appear that would be the case. I agree with Mark that the situation would have been a great one to give Heath Hembree his first save opportunity. Javier Lopez showed last night that he too could get the job done. I still believe the biggest mistake was bringing in an already overused Sergio Romo. The Giants lost the game, missed an opportunity to provide their young possible future closer an easy save opportunity, and worst of all, put unnecessary wear and tear on their actual closer's arm. As Boly correctly points out, given how the games went, the Giants should have swept. But things don't always happen the way they should. And that is one of the reasons that the best National League team has won essentially three out of five games, while the worst has essentially lost two of five. A shame the Giants didn't sweep -- but that's baseball. As for getting ticked off by incompetence, one could and should then get ticked off on occasion by every team and virtually every player who has played the game. We're talking about human beings in a game whose outcome is often determined by luck. Casilla should easily have closed the game out. Romo, even though IMO he shouldn't have been used, should have closed the game out. But even Mariano Rivera -- the best closer ever and arguably the best player for his position to ever play the game -- blows one out of nine save opportunities. And I'm sure sometimes that is because he can't find enough the strike zone as Casilla couldn't, and other times it has been because he found too much of it, as Romo did. I don't think Romo should have even been in the game. But he threw some darn good pitches that the batters were skilled and/or lucky to take. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2009#ixzz2fQb0FIOC |
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 20, 2013 8:34:50 GMT -5
Casilla has been a good setup man in his Giants career, but his inability to throw strikes can drive you crazy in a close game. Walking two men with a three run lead? Walking the leadoff hitter in a one run game? That was his last two days. It caused a loss and a situation where you needed Lopez to get a right handed hitter out to win the game. That might work with a nobody like Recker at the plate, but what if the Mets sent up David Wright as a pinch hitter? He's returning tonight, they probably could have used him there if they were trying as hard to win as Bochy was. Meanwhile, Bochy had George Kontos throwing in the bullpen, as he won't even trust the rookie Hembree in a meaningless game. I wonder if he'll be so untrusting of kid relievers if Brett Bochy ever makes it up here?
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 20, 2013 10:01:47 GMT -5
as he won't even trust the rookie Hembree in a meaningless game.
---boly says---
Bingo, Mark!
This is great evidence for the case you've been stating about Cabeza Grande (Big Head) and his apparent disdain for the kids.
Hembree SHOULD have come in to get that last out.
Absolutely should have!
Why?
A manager MUST find out how the kid can/will handle closing pressure, and the best time to do it is in a MEANINGLESS game.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 21, 2013 2:24:44 GMT -5
Lemme get this right...Bochy doesn't throw a kid who has a total of 4 innings at the major league level into a save situation and you guys insult him for it? I guess I just don't see the logic in that. But hey, you guys probably know what you're talking about, after all, Bochy has only put together two of the most impressive bullpens in the last decade plus.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 21, 2013 7:20:35 GMT -5
How'd you like Kontos last night instead of Hembree, Boagie? How'd that work out in Yankee Stadium? Ruined my night especially since I was there! Remember this, Boagie. Who was the closer at Fresno this year while Kontos was there? Hembree! Doesn't that mean the rest of the Giants organization know that Hembree is better than Kontos? By the way, Hembree followed with a perfect inning with two more strikeouts, including one of the hottest hitter in baseball, Alfonso Soriano. Kontos gave up a slam to a guy on a bad hamstring who had one hit on his last 25 atbats. And for DK and his Hector over Posey love, what catcher in his right mind asks for an outside corner fastball to a power hitter in Yankee Stadium with that right field porch? As for Bochy's career bullpen management, he can thank his GM's for providing him great bullpens in SD and SF. Doesn't take a genius to go lefty- righty through the seventh and eighth and then call on all star closers!
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 21, 2013 10:11:47 GMT -5
Lemme get this right...Bochy doesn't throw a kid who has a total of 4 innings at the major league level into a save situation and you guys insult him for it? I guess I just don't see the logic in that. But hey, you guys probably know what you're talking about, after all, Bochy has only put together two of the most impressive bullpens in the last decade plus.
---boly says---
Yes, Boagie, we do. And, IMHO, we're justified.
1-Is anything on the line?
No.
2-How can you tell how a kid will react under pressure if he never gets the chance, in a more controlled situation, to find out?
You can't.
I don't give a rat's pa-too-tie about what he's done and how he's managed the pen.
No question, he's good at handling pitchers.
But with NOTHING at stake, see how the kid handles the spotlight.
Find out NOW, and NOT when we're still in the race when a critical mistake could cost us an important game.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 21, 2013 10:52:37 GMT -5
Boagie -- Lemme get this right...Bochy doesn't throw a kid who has a total of 4 innings at the major league level into a save situation and you guys insult him for it? I guess I just don't see the logic in that. Rog -- And you make a nice point here, one that may have been the primary decider in Bruce Bochy's thinking. He may have been afraid of affecting Heath's confidence. But I would indeed have brought in Heath for the following reasons: . The game wasn't very meaningful (although I'm sure the Giants are hoping to end the season on a winning note). . The normal closer, Sergio Romo, had thrown 25 pitches the night before and shouldn't even have been available to pitch in a game with so little meaning. . Despite the outcome, the save was an EASY one -- a great opportunity IMO for the Giants to give Heath a chance at the role he filled -- well -- in AAA this season. I suspect the Giants are hoping to more gradually escalate Heath's role, but I do agree with others here that they missed a nice chance at exposing him in a pretty safe situation. ANY pitcher the Giants have should have been able to make a three-run, one-inning save. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2009&page=1#15138#ixzz2fXiOvCSR |
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 21, 2013 11:38:49 GMT -5
I agree, which is why I might like to see that too, but to criticize a manager (who has a reputation for putting together nice bullpens) for not doing it is ridiculous.
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Post by dk on Sept 21, 2013 14:41:11 GMT -5
How'd you like Kontos last night instead of Hembree, Boagie? How'd that work out in Yankee Stadium? Ruined my night especially since I was there! Remember this, Boagie. Who was the closer at Fresno this year while Kontos was there? Hembree! Doesn't that mean the rest of the Giants organization know that Hembree is better than Kontos? By the way, Hembree followed with a perfect inning with two more strikeouts, including one of the hottest hitter in baseball, Alfonso Soriano. Kontos gave up a slam to a guy on a bad hamstring who had one hit on his last 25 atbats. And for DK and his Hector over Posey love, what catcher in his right mind asks for an outside corner fastball to a power hitter in Yankee Stadium with that right field porch? As for Bochy's career bullpen management, he can thank his GM's for providing him great bullpens in SD and SF. Doesn't take a genius to go lefty- righty dk..the pitch was not far enough outside...and I would guess that was the "book" on pitching to A-Rod in that situation....and if you watched really close, except for that one pitch. Sanchez caught a great game...good blocks, great pitch selection and great handling of Tim...Sanchez showed more leadership in that one game than I have ever seen from Posey....he pushed Tim to give his best, he slowed him down when he needed to, he went out to the mound and did the talking to Tim...and he got a terrible call on that stolen base before thee homerun...the runner was out and Tim should have got threw the inning...he had Tim in great rhythm and I didn't see many shake offs.... |
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 21, 2013 20:25:35 GMT -5
I thought about what you would been apt to say, Don, if last night's catcher had been Buster. Here are my thoughts on what would have been your thoughts.
Posey got shaken off pitch call after pitch call by Tim, who then struck out the batter with the pitch he wanted to throw.
"Buster" had all kinds of trouble throwing, and once again he showed he couldn't block a pitch if it were a beach ball. "Buster" was probably tired. He hits better when he plays first base, you know.
On Soriano's home run, "Buster" stupidly called for a high fastball on an 0-2 pitch. He does that all the time, you know, so he won't be forced to block balls in the dirt.
If he wanted a high fastball, he didn't set his target high enough, and he was late in putting it up at all. Tim didn't have to worry about setting targets at all when he was a college shortstop, but they had to convert him to catcher because he runs as slowly as Bengie Molina.
Still, he hits better when he plays first base, so we can stand his cement feet there and move the Baby Giraffe to left field.
Heck, if the Giants had just given him the chance, they could have moved Kevin Frandsen to catcher, and they wouldn't have to have drafted "Posey" at all, and instead could have drafted a player who knows how to play his position.
Now of COURSE you wouldn't really have said most of those things. But other than the really preposterous ones, do you see things that kind of ring true?
Of course, I post better when I play first base, so who am I to say?
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 21, 2013 20:28:26 GMT -5
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 21, 2013 22:57:00 GMT -5
No, DK, you're wrong about ARod. Kontos even regretted throwing that pitch and said he should have gone inside there, because the book on ARod is to tie him up inside. I give no credit to Kontos for being a decent pitcher, but I give him credit for taking the blame. Hector called for that pitch.
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 22, 2013 11:25:41 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on Sept 22, 2013 13:52:46 GMT -5
People have been pitching ARod inside all year, because he can't get to a good inside fastball anymore. He didn't even hit that pitch particularly well. I though he was a little out in front and got under it too much as well. But that's Yankee Stadium.
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Post by dk on Sept 22, 2013 17:15:46 GMT -5
Don -- the runner was out and Tim should have got threw the inning. Rog -- Yeah. Tim has got threw a lot of innings, even when he through a lot of pitches that should have got him out of the inning, but didn't got. dk..you have to be a miserable little nerd...wait until your girlfriend gets a fill of this side of your mean streak...... |
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Post by dk on Sept 22, 2013 17:24:15 GMT -5
No, DK, you're wrong about ARod. Kontos even regretted throwing that pitch and said he should have gone inside there, because the book on ARod is to tie him up inside. I give no credit to Kontos for being a decent pitcher, but I give him credit for taking the blame. Hector called for that pitch.[/ dk..they threw outside to A-Rod all day, today. and didn't have any trouble with him....no excuse, though, because I think Sanchez caught two nice games in NY...I am surprised they say to pitch inside to A-Rod...of course, Petit pitches on the outside with most of his pitches....and he doesn't have enough of a fastball to throw a strike inside ....again, no excuse, but the pitcher never blames a catcher because he has veto power... |
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Post by allenreed on Sept 22, 2013 18:20:32 GMT -5
dk..you have to be a miserable little nerd...wait until your girlfriend gets a fill of this side of your mean streak
Allen- Seriously? Why do you keep wasting our time with this juvenile garbage?
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Post by dk on Sept 22, 2013 23:58:55 GMT -5
dk..you have to be a miserable little nerd...wait until your girlfriend gets a fill of this side of your mean streak Allen- Seriously? Why do you keep wasting our time with this juvenile garbage dk..it beats all the miserable obese druggie lies you filled these pages with......and how would you answer this latest batch of snide remarks that the nerd puts out about me...I feel much better when I can vent my dislike of his and your remarks against me that you sneak into arguments that I am not a part of......and how juvenile was the post by Rog because I wrote threw instead of through...now that didn't rate a comment from you... |
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Post by allenreed on Sept 23, 2013 1:36:01 GMT -5
He doesn't put out anything about you, Don. All he dows is disagree with your argument. Why do you have to subscribe to the liberal way of arguing: If you can't argue the issue, attack the person you're arguing with and name call. It's the same tired, juvenile crap all the time.
Same here, "obese druggie lies". All the while supporting a President who admits to doing weed and coke. This is your idea of venting? Small, petty namecalling that would be laughed off a second grade playground? Can't you at least come up with something worthy of an adult, or at least something different.
As for the threw thing, I probably skimmed over it. I usually read the first sentence or two, and if that doesn't hold my interest, I move on.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 23, 2013 7:25:33 GMT -5
Hector almost cost the Giants the game yesterday with that inexcusable passed ball in the seventh inning. It's a good thing we kept Javier Lopez, as he struck out Wells and Ichiro back to back to save the day.
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 23, 2013 11:02:05 GMT -5
Mark -- Hector almost cost the Giants the game yesterday with that inexcusable passed ball in the seventh inning. It's a good thing we kept Javier Lopez, as he struck out Wells and Ichiro back to back to save the day. Rog -- I think you said it best, Mark. Hector is a nice backup. He's still young too, so he has time to increase his plate control on offense and his ball-blocking on defense. All in all, I'm liking him more and more -- despite his flaws. I do think he's serious about the game, so I suspect he'll continue to improve. He worked hard to get back into shape, and Bruce Bochy says that he sees Hector as the most improved Giant since the start of the season. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2009&page=1#15236#ixzz2fjSGOhCh |
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Post by dk on Sept 23, 2013 11:35:21 GMT -5
Hector almost cost the Giants the game yesterday with that inexcusable passed ball in the seventh inning. It's a good thing we kept Javier Lopez, as he struck out Wells and Ichiro back to back to save the day. dk..wow, the kid made one bad(?) play and you want to throw him out with the dish water...I thought that was a late breaking ball that he didn't expect....do you really think Posey would have caught Ishy on the steal...the kid made a great throw....wasn't it nice that we had a catcher that was able to block off the plate on Perez's throw home....and Posey continues to hit like a 7 or 8th place hitter and no one seems to notice.....there are a lot of reasons the Giants are where they are in the race, however, when your clean-up hitter has been useless since the all-star game, he has to bear a lot of the blame.... |
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 24, 2013 7:02:55 GMT -5
DK, are you Hector's agent or a relative? I didn't say throw him out because of the passed ball, I said he almost cost them the game, which is a fact. And while Posey 's slump may have him looking like a seventh or eighth place hitter, as you state, let's not forget that Hector Sanchez actually IS a seventh or eighth place hitter!
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 24, 2013 10:42:14 GMT -5
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Post by dk on Sept 24, 2013 13:09:26 GMT -5
Mark -- DK, are you Hector's agent or a relative? I didn't say throw him out because of the passed ball, I said he almost cost them the game, which is a fact. And while Posey 's slump may have him looking like a seventh or eighth place hitter, as you state, let's not forget that Hector Sanchez actually IS a seventh or eighth place hitter! Rog -- Nicely stated, Mark. And of late, Hector has even been hitting more like a #6 hitter. dk..it might be interesting for you guys to compare the difference in stats between the pre and post all star games.. pre All-Star post A-S 1.Posey....325/.395/.536/.931 (8) .242/..319/.308/.627 2.Belt .260/.336/.448/.784 (2) .330/..395/.515/.910 3.Scutaro .316/.367/.400/.767 (6) .262/.339/.319/.688 4.Pence .262/.305/.45/.760 (1) .325/.393/.530/.923 5.Crawford .274/.335/.381/.7115 (10) .218/.284/.339/.623 6 Sandoval .266/.317/.397/.714 (4) .288/.363/.429/.792 7.Blanco .277/.339/.367/.706 (7).248/.333/.317/..650 8.Pagan .262/.314/.374/.688 (3).307/.73/.467/.840 9.Arias .282/.302/..327/.629 (9) .261/.267/.357/.624 10 Sanchez .231/.318/.231/.549 (5) .274/..311/.429/.740 the biggest drop...Posey, the best improvement Pence...but Sanchez was close...  |
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 27, 2013 10:21:01 GMT -5
Hector Sanchez has had 123 at bats this season. He had 39 at bats pre all star game and 84 post all star game. Even 84 at bats is a small sample size, yet you use his 39 at bats as an important tool to determine his improvement over the year. You're comparing him mostly to hitters who have over 500 plate appearances! If you don't see the flaws here in your logic, I don't know what else to say.
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Post by dk on Sept 27, 2013 13:23:56 GMT -5
Hector Sanchez has had 123 at bats this season. He had 39 at bats pre all star game and 84 post all star game. Even 84 at bats is a small sample size, yet you use his 39 at bats as an important tool to determine his improvement over the year. You're comparing him mostly to hitters who have over 500 plate appearances! If you don't see the flaws here in your logic, I don't know what else to say. dk..I didn't post the averages to tout Sanchez, I tried to show how the whole team fared since the All-Star break...Do you think Posey performed like a 4 hitter after the break?? and by the way, I think the number of "bats" Hector had is a better sample than the one passed ball used to diss him.... I wasn't looking at the stats to tout Sanchez, I look at how he handles the position...he is more of a natural catcher than Posey and seems to handle pitchers better and actually provides some leadership at that position,,,,I know that is not the most popular thing to knock Posey, but that is the way I see it...and I do have some that agree with me..... |
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