How meaningless are A-ball results?

[sfgdood]

I have had one person after the next tell me basically how wrong and stupid I am to keep believing in Gary Brown. So, my question is this. If a player dominates--either as a pitcher or a hitter--the California League as thoroughly as Brown did, should we just never trust that? Should we just sit back and say...nice season kid, now do it at the next level or it means absolutely nothing?

Just curious.

~Dood

[Islandboagie]

Producing at each level shows the kind of progression a player is making. That's kind of the nature of a minor league system. I still hope that Brown can help the Giants someday, but I can tell you we'd all be a little more excited if he was batting .400 at Fresno, that would be noticed, just like the fact that he isn't quite showing he's ready should also be noticed. The coaches and talent scouts don't just get paid to look pretty down there, Randy.

[sfgdood]

I see...so then we shouldnt get even a little bit excited about a player until he's hit .400 or maybe has an ERA under 2 at AAA?

~Dood

[allenreed]

You can believe in a guy, or get exscited about him all you want, but unless he can do it at the next level, what does it really mean, other than you've found a good player for your A ball team.

[sfgdood]

so that's 2 votes (Boagie and Allen) for meaningless...anyone say they DO mean something?

~Dood

[dk]

Aug 12, 2013 17:42:22 GMT -5 sfgdood said:

so that's 2 votes (Boagie and Allen) for meaningless...anyone say they DO mean something?

dk..these are the same guys that said that Crawford wouldn't make it....remember he only hit .380, but that dreded k/BB
will get you every time...except for the slew of guys it didn't mean much at all.

[Islandboagie]

dk..these are the same guys that said that Crawford wouldn't make it....remember he only hit .380, but that dreded k/BB
will get you every time...except for the slew of guys it didn't mean much at all.

Boagie- I never said Crawford wouldn't make it. I thought his defense would carry him and his offense would be good enough for him to be a starting player which is exactly what has happened thus far in his career. I was the first on this board to support the call up of Brandon in 2011, and I pushed for him being the full time starter. Randy will tell you. He's the one who constantly supported Tejada and then Cabrera as the starting shortstops.

[Islandboagie]

so that's 2 votes (Boagie and Allen) for meaningless...anyone say they DO mean something?

~Dood

Boagie- I never said having a good season in San Jose means nothing, I just don't think it means everything. He shouldn't be called up based on what he did 2 years ago in San Jose. Remember Thomas Neal? He killed it in San Jose and never really managed to impress at any other level, should he have been called up to based on just what he did at San Jose? The Giants had him in Fresno when they traded him and the Indians finally called him up to the majors. That was 2 years ago and since then he's been with 3 different teams and has only 38 major league at-bats. He even got demoted back to AA last season.

...I didn't realize we were voting but if that's what the vote is about (bringing up Brown while he's struggling in Fresno to sit on the bench in S.F. and watch our guys play like shit day in and day out) then yes mark me down as a big NO.

However, once the Grizzlies have played their last game I have no problem with the Giants calling up Brown to get a taste of the big leagues. But that's not what you've been talking about for the last month+.

[allenreed]

I'm not sure I said meaningless. If I did, I didn't mean to. What I'm saying is that a good year in A ball earns the player the right to move up. He then needs to excel at the higher minor league levels to move up to the big club. A good year in A ball doesn't give a player a pass to the bigs, especially if he falls short at AA or AAA.

[rxmeister]

That's for sure. A good year in A ball is encouraging, not meaningless, but he needs to continue to excel as he's moved up. Brown has been horrendous at Fresno this year , and it simply can't be ignored.. He's now hitting .229 in a league that's friendly to hitters. His OBP is poor, he strikes out way too much for a power hitter, and he's a terrible base stealer. I haven't given up on him yet, but I'm not optimistic. I'm guessing he'll have to repeat the level.

[sfgdood]

a few things here. dk...Boagie is right about me not supporting Crawford right off the bat in 2011. And I use that phrase literally because his bat was even worse than Gary Brown's is right now. Other people argued that his glove was better, and it has proven to be so...but at that time his hitting was beyond awful.

@boagie...I never advocated calling up Brown to sit him on the bench. I said our outfield was bad enough that even Gary's defense would be a boon, since none of those guys are hitting anyway.

@allen...I see what you mean and I don't mean to say Brown (or anyone) deserves a pass. If I didnt truly believe he would have been an upgrade over what we were throwing out there in left and center every day--which has been pathetic--then i wouldnt have even mentioned it.

@rx...you are completely correct in your assessment of Brown's numbers. I have been very disappointed also. I just wish more people would be mad about what Bochy has been sending to our outfield every night and want something done other than picking up other team's scraps and trying to convert a Japanese infielder.

I mean look at it logically...how much worse could Brown really be? If you have a guy that has talent you believe in, why not give him a shot? His defense is so much better than anything else we have at any level, and that's a fact. If it's his leading off you are concerned with...well, Bochy is nearly down to pulling names out of a hat to fill that role because Blanco and Torres were so awful. He even considered putting Pence there! Even if Gary was as bad as they have been at lead off, he would definitely be a huge upgrade in the outfield.

The Giants kept finding reasons to keep Heath Hembree down too and look what happened. He hurt his arm and his fastball is 5-8 feet shorter. Now, he might eventually be a good set up man but his promise is shot as a fireballing closer. Right when our bullpen could use a lift, Heath is re-learning his new, worse, stuff. We can't even get much for him in a trade anymore, which is the real stink of it.

~Dood

[rxmeister]

Juan Perez is the player that I believe deserved the longer look in CF this year, Dood, not Brown. He's as good defensively as Brown is, and he hit at Fresno too. He was called up, had a good week followed by a bad week and was buried. It's hard to believe that a GM and manager who think its a better idea to send Jeff Francoeur out there against left handed pitchers than Perez have won two rings in three years.

[sfgdood]

I don't like Francoeur either (although at one time he WAS tough on lefties) and hated Tanaka in the outfield. Perez is fine and he was/is deserving of more time. I guess they felt bad about Keischnick not getting a chance yet. I dump both Torres and Jeff by early September and give more time to the kids.

I will say that my personal feeling is that Juan is still below Brown defensively, and that is no knock on Juan...he is very good. Brown is simply that great. When you get to see him on a regular basis you will see this.

~Dood