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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 25, 2013 11:51:55 GMT -5
I can't stand Dusty Baker as a manager, but his advice to hitters; "get a good pitch to hit," is priceless.
It starts with pitch recognition...
And of course, when it comes to this year's group of Giant Clofs, it falls on deaf ears.
The other day we watched Crawford chase a first pitch-bad pitch up around his eyes, and pop up with the bases loaded.
And last night, fatso did the exact same thing on an inside pitch, off the plate, with cut, with the bases loaded.
I'm not a pro.. Never was, and never could be. I simply wasn't good enough, big enough, nor fast enough.
But I could think, and I could see, and I could RECOGNIZE a pitch quite early; something Giant hitters NOT named Scutaro or Posey don't seem capable of doing.
I saw what was coming, I just didn't have enough talent to do much with it.
The Giants seemingl don't recognize any pitch, and each game, they prove my point over and over and over again.
This group is a collective embarassment.
They are.
I've never, ever seen a group who are decent to good hitters, continually perform so outrageously badly.
The 1962 Mets were terrible, but they had a good reason.
They went for the box off draw with aging, over the hill veterans.
They were no longer good, mostly, and everone then played down to their level.
But our group has no such excuse.
1-Blanco-dude! Do you even understand the CONCEPT of what a leadoff hitter is supposed to do?
Do you even WATCH Marco when he hits?
He makes the pitcher throw strikes. He's patient. Until he gets two strikes, he's not swinging until he gets his pitch.
But you? First pitch near the plate, you're hacking away... and popping up, or grounding weakly out.
2-Fatso-First, lose some weight. Second, lay off the caffine and chill out! You don't have to be so wired to drive in runs that you over swing, or chase the first lousy strike you see.
3-Belt-Do you even go up to the plate with an IDEA of what you'd like to do?
Do you even WATCH how a guy is working hitters before you hit?
What happened to your ability to GO WITH A PITCH, and hit it the other way?
Right now, you look like a left handed version of Dr. Strangeglove(The Big Awful), Dick Stuart at the plate.
You've got one thing on your mind; jerk everything you see.
how's that working out for you?
4-Quiros-It's obvious you got to the show with you defense, because you couldn't hit a dead cow with a stick it you were standing on it.
5-Tanaka-If any Japanese youngsters are watching, you should be embarrassed. According to your stats, you're better than what you've done.
But you're the ONLY highly regarded Japanese slap hitter I've EVER seen who continually chases pitches out of the strike zone.
Dusty's right; get a good pitch to hit.
Naw. You clods wouldn't recognize a good pitch if they put it on a Tee for you.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 25, 2013 13:38:51 GMT -5
Boly -- And of course, when it comes to this year's group of Giant Clofs, it falls on deaf ears. Rog -- I don't think there is any question that most Giants hitters should at least TRY to be more selective. But I don't know that the philosophy is falling on deaf ears. It may be that some of the players are simply unable to execute as well as we would like. I think we all agree with the idea; I simply don't know whether the players are listening and are unable to adjust or arer tuning the idea out. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1923#ixzz2a5G9McyQ |
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 25, 2013 15:20:35 GMT -5
Boly -- I've never, ever seen a group who are decent to good hitters, continually perform so outrageously badly. Rog -- I guess you're refering to their hitting during this slump. And indeed they have hit poorly. Over the season to date though, I don't see any Giant who is hitting well below his normal leve -- with the exception of Pablo Sandoval, and his injury may be a large cause of his problem. To me, by far the bigger problem both for July and over the course of the season has been the starting pitching. In July, for instance, the starters have a 6.11 ERA. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1923#ixzz2a5eyYJtg |
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Post by allenreed on Jul 25, 2013 15:21:09 GMT -5
I enjoyed boly quoting Dusty as saying "get a good pitch to hit" as if he were the first to ever say it or think of it.I think that's been pretty much an axiom since baseball began. I remember watching special on Bobby Thompson's homer in 51, and he says that was his last thought before getting into the batter's box.
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 25, 2013 15:41:10 GMT -5
Allen -- I enjoyed boly quoting Dusty as saying "get a good pitch to hit" as if he were the first to ever say it or think of it Rog -- Dusty was actually the third guy to do so. Connie Mack and John McGraw thought of it as well. But as you can see, the thought hadn't been used for years. It was good of Dusty to "dust" it off. Allen -- I think that's been pretty much an axiom since baseball began. Rog -- That's what Mack and McGraw said. Allen -- I remember watching special on Bobby Thompson's homer in 51, and he says that was his last thought before getting into the batter's box. Rog -- And that goes to show that it can sometimes be difficult to execute the batter's plan. Bobby actually felt he got his pitch on the very first offering of the at bat and was upset with himself for letting it go by. The pitch he hit was up, perhaps even in the bigger strike zone of those days. He got a second chance and took advantage of it. The movie "42" indicated Ralph Branca was a good supporter of Jackie Robinson when Jackie played for the Dodgers. After learning that, I felt extra sorry for Branca -- who I believe had already given up one homer to Thomson in the series. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1923&page=1#13094#ixzz2a5juiQfs |
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Post by klaiggeb on Jul 25, 2013 16:34:49 GMT -5
Boly -- I've never, ever seen a group who are decent to good hitters, continually perform so outrageously badly.
Rog -- I guess you're refering to their hitting during this slump. And indeed they have hit poorly. Over the season to date though, I don't see any Giant who is hitting well below his normal leve -- with the exception of Pablo Sandoval, and his injury may be a large cause of his problem.
To me, by far the bigger problem both for July and over the course of the season has been the
--boly says---
Totally agree. But, and here's the but... this "slump" has been going on for over a month.
How many times have we loaded the bases, or got 2 on, with no one out... and NOT scored?
I've lost track. We did it AGAIN yesterday.
There butt cheeks are squeezed so tightly together you couldn't get a "Pea" out!
They are P R O F E S S I O N A L S.
I expect slumps.
I expect down times.
but this team is too good to stink THIS badly, offensively, for this long.
The starting pitching... don't even get me started. As an ex pitcher...well, let's just say that Bochy needs to kick some fannies and hard!
But he won't.
The modern player has to be molly coddled, and told what a good boy he is, and yes, things will get better, young man. You're a star. Just remember that.
Bull.
Professional.
It's a title.
It's a label.
And it comes with expectations that our hitters are not living up to.
boly
boly
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Post by allenreed on Jul 25, 2013 17:00:56 GMT -5
Rog -- And that goes to show that it can sometimes be difficult to execute the batter's plan. Bobby actually felt he got his pitch on the very first offering of the at bat and was upset with himself for letting it go by. The pitch he hit was up, perhaps even in the bigger strike zone of those days.
He got a second chance and took advantage of it.
Allen- According to Branca, the Giants were stealing signs and Thompson knew the pitch was coming.
The movie "42" indicated Ralph Branca was a good supporter of Jackie Robinson when Jackie played for the Dodgers. After learning that, I felt extra sorry for Branca -- who I believe had already given up one homer to Thomson in the series.
Allen- He had, which makes you wonder why Dressen briought him in. I believe he had Erskine and another pitcher (yes three pitchers) warming up. Bud Podbielan may have been the third pitcher.
Why would the fact that Branca supported Robinson make you feel more sorry for him?
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 25, 2013 17:08:33 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on Jul 25, 2013 22:09:14 GMT -5
Interesting. I'm not sure I ever felt sorry for Branca. He was just on the wrong end of a baseball history. I don't recall feeling particularly sorry for Al Downing either. There were plenty of players who supported Robinson, both on the Dodgers and other teams. It isn't like Ralph was rare in that regard.
Every interview I've ever ssen with Branca, one of the first things out of his mouh was that the Giants cheated and the home run was not deserved. Why not just give Thompson his due?
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donk
New Member
Posts: 23
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Post by donk on Jul 25, 2013 23:49:06 GMT -5
First, I wish you would give Bobby his due by spelling his last name correctly...Thomson.....the Giants had a bunch of Thompsons, but the big Scot was named Thomson...aside, Robby Thompson is acting manager of the Toronto team....Branca and Thomson became good friends and used to work together on the lecture trail....ex-Giant Sal Yvars started the story that the Giants were stealing signs...I believe Whitey Lockman and Thomson said it wasn't so...why oh why would they bother stealing the signs from the catcher, relaying it to the bull pen and then the bullpen go had to stand on the bench to even see the top of the batter...the field was turtle backed....it would have been much easier for Lockman, the runner on second, to give the sign to Bobby....however, Lockman always said that Bobby did not want the sign as he worried about them crossing him up...in one of the Dodger's books, they say that McPhail was in the clubhouse yelling at Branca that Bobby wouldn't have homered if Branca threw the pitch that the catcher called for....that has never been discussed....it is amazing what peopole believe if they read it a book by someone who wasn't even there.....like Koufax was a nothing who needed the stadium to make him good....
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 26, 2013 1:12:29 GMT -5
Allen -- Interesting. I'm not sure I ever felt sorry for Branca. He was just on the wrong end of a baseball history. I don't recall feeling particularly sorry for Al Downing either. Rog -- HUGE difference in their place in history as a result of the two home runs in question. Allen -- There were plenty of players who supported Robinson, both on the Dodgers and other teams. It isn't like Ralph was rare in that regard. Rog -- The movie didn't make it appear that way. Let's just say that Jackie had a tough row to hoe. Allen -- Every interview I've ever ssen with Branca, one of the first things out of his mouh was that the Giants cheated and the home run was not deserved. Why not just give Thompson his due? Rog -- I do believe that Branca and Thomson have appeared together at many events over the years and have become friends. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1923&page=1#13109#ixzz2a84q7km5 |
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 26, 2013 1:18:12 GMT -5
Don -- it is amazing what peopole believe if they read it a book by someone who wasn't even there.....like Koufax was a nothing who needed the stadium to make him good.... Rog -- You're incorrigible, Don. As far as I know, no one has ever said that. I can tell you for fact though that Sandy's road ERA of 2.77 in 1961 rose a bit to 3.53 when the Dodgers moved to Dodger Stadium. His home ERA magically fell from 4.22 to 1.75. That's a HUGE reduction for a guy who actually fell back a little on the road. Those are facts, Don. That's not a bad thing to base an argument on. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1923&page=1#ixzz2a85esLVS |
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Post by allenreed on Jul 26, 2013 1:18:26 GMT -5
I'm going on what Branca has said, and I believe Ralph was there. Were you? The only mistake I've ever heard Branca admit to was that the pitch was higher than he wanted it. But he said that the way Thomson (ok?) jumped on the pitch, he had to know it was coming.
I've heard the story about Yvars, but like you, I think the logistics of it seem too difficult. To get the sign to the batter in time for the next pitch seems impossible.
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 26, 2013 1:22:30 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on Jul 26, 2013 11:47:22 GMT -5
Don't know. I'm just quoting Branca. I agree with you that the first pitch was right down the middle.
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donk
New Member
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Post by donk on Jul 26, 2013 12:25:05 GMT -5
the other fact that has always been talked around...almost every team in baseballl changes its' signs when they play a team against one of their ex-players ...that was supposed to be how the cheating went down, the Giants knew the signs from one of the ex=Dodgers on the team.....but do you really know the signs until you have seen the second repeat of the sign ,,,which means if a guy throws 2 straight fastballs and the "cheaters" called it right, I would then think they knew the signs.......I sure wish this had come out 45 years ago when Al Corwin's kid was on my son's little league team...him and Yvars were close and Yvars was one of the guys who said the Giants called the pitch...Al joined the Giants the same day as Willie Mays and had a big part in the Giants comeback....
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