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Post by klaiggeb on Jun 1, 2013 16:20:40 GMT -5
The game was on at 1015 PST. My wife and I ran our usual Saturday errands, went to lunch, and got home around 1:15.
I sit down to watch what I hope will be an enjoyable game with Cain going.
He's been pitching better, so even though we're missing 2 key parts to the line up, I figure we have a chance.
Matty starts off well pitching, as Kuiper said, his best baseball of the year.
He's getting ahead of the hitters, locating all of his pitchers... and then, all of a sudden, he's falling behind... and falling behind.... and falling behind, and before I even get comfortable, we're down 7-0.
Once again, another terrible outting by a starting pitcher.
I don't know what the reason is, and as I've been wont to say, I don't really care what the reason is; You're major league pitchers. fix the problem.
I know what I'm NOT buying as the reason: so many innings these last couple of years.
Really.
Spare me the 25 cent psychology.
Pitchers today are better conditioned, have better training and eating habits than any time in history.
How did pitchers routinely pitch 225-300 innings and still come back year after year after year, and do well?
Like I say; find another reason, and stop looking for the lame, half baked, down right easies excuses you can find.
They aren't pitching well. Period.
Me? I STILL claim it's focus.
Only I'll add another point to my arguement.
It's focus, hunger and INTENSITY.
Oh it seems to be there. You can "almost" see it.
But I know from my playing days, and my days on the golf course that "mental" intensity; when it's not there, and you don't know why, puts you into a game less than you are capable of.
Anyway, that's my explaination.
Rip it apart.
feel free, but it's my opinion.
One continually ticked off
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 4, 2013 15:48:22 GMT -5
Something else may have been at play here. Aside from the inning that would never end, Matt had a great outing.
Did you notice anything different about his mechanics that inning, Boly? It's hard to imagine he couldn't regain focus while the Cardinals were giving him so much to focus on.
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Post by allenreed on Jun 4, 2013 15:58:37 GMT -5
Wasn't that the only inning in which he pitched from the stretch?
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 4, 2013 16:34:53 GMT -5
Good point. And you're not stretching the truth, either.
Remembering back, there was some question about the possibility that Matt was tipping his pitches. I believe someone on the TV postgame show said he noticed something from the stretch.
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Post by klaiggeb on Jun 4, 2013 18:16:19 GMT -5
Did you notice anything different about his mechanics that inning, Boly? It's hard to imagine he couldn't regain focus while the Cardinals were giving him so much to focus on.
---boly says---
Rog, I was focusing intently on his mechanics I didn't see anything out of sorts.
But... and here's the thing, I think it was Boagie who first pointed out that Matt seemed to be "slinging" the ball more often this year than ever before.
Honestly, I thought he was doing that, or close to it, from the first pitch on.
But then I began questioning myself wondering how he could be so dominant if he was?
He's confused, Righetti's confused, and so am I, along with everyone else.
Just all of a sudden, he began falling behind, and had to come in.
I mentioned waaaaay back that I thought Vogey was telegraphing his pitches.
Cain, too?
I'd be more inclined to believe, since it's happening to Cain, and maybe Bumgarner, too, that maybe the catcher is tipping the pitches.
It would be an intersting study to see how each guy did when pitching to Quiros and not Buster.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2013 9:49:19 GMT -5
Boly -- It would be an intersting study to see how each guy did when pitching to Quiros and not Buster. Rog -- The last time I looked, the Giants' pitchers had pitched best to Quiroz, then to Buster and finally to Sanchez. The samples on Quiroz and Sanchez though are so small as to lack significant meaning. One thing I found ironic: It would certainly appear both Tim and Barry preferred to pitch to Sanchez, yet their ERA's while pitching to him weren't any better than when pitching to Buster. Again, not a huge sample size, but a little bigger. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1799&page=1#11413#ixzz2VLy1lXpa |
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donk
New Member
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Post by donk on Jun 5, 2013 13:02:02 GMT -5
didn't anyone notice the change in Posey while catching Tim last night?? He was setting up closer to the center of the plate and not moving his right leg well past the outside corner...and Tim was throwing strikes.....and not getting hit too hard...another major difference was that after a failure to agree on what to throw in the first inning just before the home run, there was very little shaking off after that....this could be that Tim was calling his own pitches or Posey finally got the game plan...the rythem of the game picked up and Tim was pitching at a faster rate....I just don' t understand how there can be such a pissing contest between a pitcher and a catcher as early as the first inning and with no runners on base...it happened with Vogey and Posey on the first pitch of a recent game.....don't the pitcher and catcher have a meeting before the game to discuss how they are going to go after batters?  I also noticed that Posey went back to his wide targets when Romo came into pitch...didn't seem to bother Romo.... |
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2013 13:48:51 GMT -5
Don -- didn't anyone notice the change in Posey while catching Tim last night?? He was setting up closer to the center of the plate and not moving his right leg well past the outside corner...and Tim was throwing strikes..... Rog -- Buster has been setting up more toward the center of the plate for a long time now, Don. I'm surprised you just noticed it. If anything, I thought Buster set up MORE on the corners than in other recent games. Don --and not getting hit too hard...another major difference was that after a failure to agree on what to throw in the first inning just before the home run, there was very little shaking off after that....this could be that Tim was calling his own pitches or Posey finally got the game plan... Rog -- Yep. Tim called his own pitches, and Buster was left to guess what was coming. Don -- the rythem of the game picked up and Tim was pitching at a faster rate.... Rog -- Tim pitches much faster when things are going well. When I saw him pitch in the minors, it was all I could do to log his pitches before he threw the next one. Don -- I just don' t understand how there can be such a pissing contest between a pitcher and a catcher as early as the first inning and with no runners on base...it happened with Vogey and Posey on the first pitch of a recent game.....don't the pitcher and catcher have a meeting before the game to discuss how they are going to go after batters? Rog -- I it has been documented that is the case. I have said this before, but I think Buster calls pitches based on logic and what he sees in the batter's stance. I think some of the Giants' pitchers are more intuitive in the way they like to pitch. Don -- I also noticed that Posey went back to his wide targets when Romo came into pitch...didn't seem to bother Romo.... Rog -- Naturally a good catcher will adjust his targets to fit the control of his pitcher. There was a distinct change in Tim's pitching last night that no one has yet mentioned. That it might work has been discussed here before. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1799&page=1#11441#ixzz2VMvbh6mE |
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donk
New Member
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Post by donk on Jun 5, 2013 17:37:09 GMT -5
Don -- didn't anyone notice the change in Posey while catching Tim last night?? He was setting up closer to the center of the plate and not moving his right leg well past the outside corner...and Tim was throwing strikes..... Rog -- Buster has been setting up more toward the center of the plate for a long time now, Don. I'm surprised you just noticed it. If anything, I thought Buster set up MORE on the corners than in other recent games. dk..Rog, you are full of it.....and I am sure if it were true, you would have mentioned it before this..... Don --and not getting hit too hard...another major difference was that after a failure to agree on what to throw in the first inning just before the home run, there was very little shaking off after that....this could be that Tim was calling his own pitches or Posey finally got the game plan... Rog -- Yep. Tim called his own pitches, and Buster was left to guess what was coming. dk...again, you show how much you don't know about the game of baseball...many pitchers have called their own game and tip it off to the catcher by anyone of several ways...the catcher then signals back so the infielders know what is coming...you just don't know anything except someone elses stats... Don -- the rythem of the game picked up and Tim was pitching at a faster rate.... Rog -- Tim pitches much faster when things are going well. When I saw him pitch in the minors, it was all I could do to log his pitches before he threw the next one. dk..that is why I would guess that Tim didn't like pitching to Posey...Posey slows the game up too many times.... Don -- I just don' t understand how there can be such a pissing contest between a pitcher and a catcher as early as the first inning and with no runners on base...it happened with Vogey and Posey on the first pitch of a recent game.....don't the pitcher and catcher have a meeting before the game to discuss how they are going to go after batters? Rog -- I it has been documented that is the case. I have said this before, but I think Buster calls pitches based on logic and what he sees in the batter's stance. I think some of the Giants' pitchers are more intuitive in the way they like to pitch. dk...you really think the batters change their stance that often...if at all...I let it go when you waxed over how Posey looked at the hitter looking for a hole...he looks at a hitter when he thinks the batter is trying to steal his signs.....but there is no stat for that.... Don -- I also noticed that Posey went back to his wide targets when Romo came into pitch...didn't seem to bother Romo.... Rog -- Naturally a good catcher will adjust his targets to fit the control of his pitcher. dk...what the heck are you talking about??? Posey goes wide because Romo throws the wide slider and everyone knows it....are you saying that if a pitcher throws nothing but balls that the batter doesn't swing at then he should set up in the opposite batters box and concede the pitch? There was a distinct change in Tim's pitching last night that no one has yet mentioned. That it might work has been discussed here before. dk..he threw strikes.....big change... Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1799&page=1#11441#ixzz2VMvbh6mE |
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2013 19:00:48 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2013 19:02:26 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2013 19:04:50 GMT -5
dk...you really think the batters change their stance that often...if at all...I let it go when you waxed over how Posey looked at the hitter looking for a hole...he looks at a hitter when he thinks the batter is trying to steal his signs.. Rog -- You may have made another very good observation here. Buster looks at the batter though BEFORE he gives the signs. He also tends to look down in contemplation prior to giving signs. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1799&page=1#ixzz2VOE6ke8r |
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2013 19:06:31 GMT -5
Don -- I also noticed that Posey went back to his wide targets when Romo came into pitch...didn't seem to bother Romo.... Rog -- Naturally a good catcher will adjust his targets to fit the control of his pitcher. dk...what the heck are you talking about??? Posey goes wide because Romo throws the wide slider and everyone knows it....are you saying that if a pitcher throws nothing but balls that the batter doesn't swing at then he should set up in the opposite batters box and concede the pitch??? Rog -- What I was saying is that Buster may sometimes set his target for Tim near the middle of the plate so that Tim has a better chance of throwing a strike. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1799&page=1#ixzz2VOEgCnXU |
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2013 19:13:09 GMT -5
There was a distinct change in Tim's pitching last night that no one has yet mentioned. That it might work has been discussed here before. dk..he threw strikes.....big change... Rog -- I'm more than a little disappointed here, Don -- especially given the seeming flippancy of your reply. The clear difference was all the curves Tim threw. I have mentioned many times here that Tim's curve -- not his fastball -- was considered by many scouts to be the best pitch in the 2006 draft. I have written how devastating it was early in his career, but that he had used it almost exclusively as a get-it-in first pitch the past few seasons. He wasn't particularly sharp with the pitch last night -- 17 strikes and 15 balls -- but he used the pitch to keep Toronto's hitters off balance, and used it more often to get outs instead of simply steal strikes. Don, if you're going to jump all over me about seeing only stats, you can't be missing stuff like this. I'm sure I do watch Tim more closely than others, but without mentioning the curve specifically (some of them the announcers called sliders), Krukow and Kuiper did mention that he was keeping hitters more off balance with his secondary pitches. I threw you a batting practice pitch on that one, Don, and you missed it. Congratulations though on a couple of other salient remarks you made today. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1799&page=1#ixzz2VOEyJUmM |
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jun 25, 2013 17:45:12 GMT -5
Boly - Once again, another terrible outting by a starting pitcher.
I don't know what the reason is, and as I've been wont to say, I don't really care what the reason is; You're major league pitchers. fix the problem.
Dood - Justin Verlander has given up 9 runs in 10 IP his last two outings...and has an ERA of 4.35 in the month of June. Just saying, it happens even to the best.
By the by...Matt's June ERA is 3.58
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 25, 2013 18:17:49 GMT -5
Boly - Once again, another terrible outting by a starting pitcher. I don't know what the reason is, and as I've been wont to say, I don't really care what the reason is; You're major league pitchers. fix the problem. Dood - Justin Verlander has given up 9 runs in 10 IP his last two outings...and has an ERA of 4.35 in the month of June. Just saying, it happens even to the best. By the by...Matt's June ERA is 3.58 Rog -- Great to have you back, Randy! The Giants starters' ERA's over their last 11 games is right around 2.3. There are conflicting signals out there now. The Giants are rumored to be the leaders in the Ricky Nolasco sweepstakes which features no fewer than four NL West teams, but Bruce Bochy says they will improve their pitching through the bullpen, not the rotation. At least in the near run, I would go with Bochy. He would look out of sync if the Giants suddenly pulled off a deal for a starter, even though it could perhaps be described as "too good to pass up." Larry Baer has said the Giants' starting pitcher situation is "fluid," also indicating more of a wait-and-see attitude. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1799&page=1#11977#ixzz2XGyIZpD8 |
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jun 25, 2013 18:25:13 GMT -5
I would stand pat too. I believe Gaudin can hold Vogey's spot until August decently. Although Im a little pissed off that he's wimping out of his start tonight because of a little bruise on his arm. Suck it up already!
If there are competing NL West teams bidding for Nolasco, you can bet the price will be steep. I'd prefer the Giants just go with what they have and see what happens. The bullpen should be better when Casilla and Vogey are healthy.
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 25, 2013 18:38:34 GMT -5
Randy -- If there are competing NL West teams bidding for Nolasco, you can bet the price will be steep. I'd prefer the Giants just go with what they have and see what happens. The bullpen should be better when Casilla and Vogey are healthy. Rog -- That sounds like strong logic. The Giants' schedule this month is and has been brutal. It was predictable that they wouldn't fare particularly well, but one poster here thought they might be out of it by month's end. Don't mean to nit-pick, Randy, but does it still seem to you that we should have ignored Yasiel Puig this spring? I wish the Giants could ignore him NOW! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1799&page=1#11988#ixzz2XH3iem79 |
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jun 25, 2013 18:45:02 GMT -5
Hey Puig is gushing with talent, there's no doubt. But the Dodgers are merely .500 since he entered the lineup. He's not exactly lifting them up into the stratisphere. And I never said he should be ignored. He's a fun story for ESPN but the Dodgers are still dead last. No big deal.
~Dood
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I also noticed that Posey went back to his wide targets when Romo came into pitch...didn't seem to bother Romo....