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Post by sharksrog on May 30, 2013 1:19:31 GMT -5
Remember how one poster here has continually told us that Buster Posey doesn't hit as well in the late innings because he tires from catching?
This evening the telecast showed the graphic that Buster's .388 average after the 7th inning was the 4th best in the NL this season.
The telecast did indeed post a graphic that said the rule on a ball interfered with in play was as I had stated here that I thought it was. It was good that they clarified that.
But unless I missed it, they didn't go back and say that they were way off base in their previous comments.
I loved it when in the 8th inning Ray Fosse said that if Pablo pulled off the ball as he had on the 0-1 pitch, it wouldn't be a bad idea to go outside. Pablo then went the other way with the outside pitch, lining a single to right field to score Scutaro.
Rather than laugh at himself and make some kind of joke at his own expense, Fosse then tried to pawn off the play by saying the pitch was higher than it should have been.
He was right; the pitch was high. But his comment hadn't been that the pitch should be oustide and LOW, merely that it should be outside.
Hey, I have no bone to pick with the A's announcers, and mistakes will be made. But I thought they should have made a joke at their own expense or made some sort of statement as to the mistakes they made.
Actually, I do think Ray resorted to the old joke that it was the second mistake he had made -- and that the other one was the time he thought he had made a mistake but had been mistaken.
My girlfriend and I were shopping for plants this afternoon, when I told her that a particular plant she was considering was my second choice. When she asked me which one was my favorite, i told her all the other ones were tied for first.
Fortunately she still gave me a ride home.
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donk
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Post by donk on May 30, 2013 12:19:44 GMT -5
Remember how one poster here has continually told us that Buster Posey doesn't hit as well in the late innings because he tires from catching? This evening the telecast showed the graphic that Buster's .388 average after the 7th inning was the 4th best in the NL this season. dk...when I made that statement, it was entirely true for his career...and it is still true for his career...innings 1-3, he is hitting .353, innings 4-6.. ,293, innings 7-9.. .276...this year he is hitting terrible in the 6th and 7th innings, but is very good in the 8th and 9th....and this is something I posted on here but you preferred to get it later from someone else.....he is still hitting better as a first baseman...and I don't know how his late inning hitting correlates with what position he was playing....
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Post by Islandboagie on May 30, 2013 15:00:58 GMT -5
Rog- This evening the telecast showed the graphic that Buster's .388 average after the 7th inning was the 4th best in the NL this season.
dk...when I made that statement, it was entirely true for his career..
Boagie- The stats were true for his career. However, Posey tiring out in late innings is not a fact, it's your assumption and the stats for this year show that your assumption might be incorrect. However, when you first said it you took facts and made a educated guess as to why you think his stats drop in late innings and that's because he's a catcher, which is actually somewhat logical to me.
But, the graphic now shows you might be wrong, so you should at least acknowledge that..
Dk- he is still hitting better as a first baseman...and I don't know how his late inning hitting correlates with what position he was playing....
Boagie- Hitting shouldn't correlate with what position a player is playing, which is why your theory holds little merit. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's much more likely that his stats as a first baseman are better because he's facing more lefties when he's playing first base. That would be the most logical assumption, in my opinion.
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Post by sharksrog on May 30, 2013 18:49:12 GMT -5
Don -- this year he is hitting terrible in the 6th and 7th innings, but is very good in the 8th and 9th. Rog -- Apparently Buster has already tired out by the sixth inning, they he goes in and gets intravenous fluids and gets his strength back by the 8th and 9th. On a more serious note, Don's point could indeed be a good one, but when he made the comment, it was pointed out that a larger sample might make a difference. Buster HAS hit better early in games. But would a guy who supposedly tires hit .474 in extra innings (very small sample)? It has been pointed out that Buster does his best hitting against lefties and finesse pitchers, having a harder time with power pitchers and righties. When he plays first base, it will usually be against a southpaw so that Brandon Belt can rest, and in the late innings Buster is more likely to face a power reliever. Don's point is a decent observation, but in his haste to prove his point that Buster should be moved to first base, I think he overlooked other factors besides being tired. Perhaps he's just too tired. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1795&page=1#11253#ixzz2Up0ynBbj
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donk
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Post by donk on May 30, 2013 22:20:23 GMT -5
Rog- This evening the telecast showed the graphic that Buster's .388 average after the 7th inning was the 4th best in the NL this season. dk...when I made that statement, it was entirely true for his career.. Boagie- The stats were true for his career. However, Posey tiring out in late innings is not a fact, it's your assumption and the stats for this year show that your assumption might be incorrect. However, when you first said it you took facts and made a educated guess as to why you think his stats drop in late innings and that's because he's a catcher, which is actually somewhat logical to me. But, the graphic now shows you might be wrong, so you should at least acknowledge that.. Dk- he is still hitting better as a first baseman...and I don't know how his late inning hitting correlates with what position he was playing.... Boagie- Hitting shouldn't correlate with what position a player is playing, which is why your theory holds little merit. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's much more likely that his stats as a first baseman are better because he's facing more lefties when he's playing first base. That would be the most logical assumption, in my opinion. dk...your assumption would be logical if he only played first base when a LH was pitching against the Giants, However, he usually played 1B when someone else caught Tim and Zito....However, his BA as a 1B is almost the same as his BA against LH pitchers...now, which came first the chicken or the egg....I really do think that some multiple position guys hit better when playing one position....I think that was some of the reasons that guys got moved away from catching to a less stress position...there are very few guys who caught as many innings as a good position plays in his career....by the way...there is a Posey in the HOF...Cumberland Posey ...player, manager and owner in the Negro League...and he was considered one of the best basketball players of his era
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donk
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Post by donk on May 30, 2013 22:29:08 GMT -5
Don -- this year he is hitting terrible in the 6th and 7th innings, but is very good in the 8th and 9th. Rog -- Apparently Buster has already tired out by the sixth inning, they he goes in and gets intravenous fluids and gets his strength back by the 8th and 9th. On a more serious note, Don's point could indeed be a good one, but when he made the comment, it was pointed out that a larger sample might make a difference. Buster HAS hit better early in games. But would a guy who supposedly tires hit .474 in extra innings (very small sample)? It has been pointed out that Buster does his best hitting against lefties and finesse pitchers, having a harder time with power pitchers and righties. When he plays first base, it will usually be against a southpaw so that Brandon Belt can rest, and in the late innings Buster is more likely to face a power reliever. Don's point is a decent observation, but in his haste to prove his point that Buster should be moved to first base, I think he overlooked other factors besides being tired. Perhaps he's just too tired. dk...I'm always tired, but at 87 I can't complain,and I gave up catching when I was 12.....however, I did consider all the things that you guys would nit-pick and I still think it would be best for the team if Posey played another position if we could get a quality catcher.....so many of the modern day catchers who display some hitting usually get moved to another position, why not Posey? There was no haste in my decision/suggestion...it was apparent to me that he tires when catching and it would be career enhancement to move him...
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 1, 2013 8:45:23 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 1, 2013 8:53:07 GMT -5
Boagie- Hitting shouldn't correlate with what position a player is playing, which is why your theory holds little merit. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's much more likely that his stats as a first baseman are better because he's facing more lefties when he's playing first base. That would be the most logical assumption, in my opinion. dk...your assumption would be logical if he only played first base when a LH was pitching against the Giants, However, he usually played 1B when someone else caught Tim and Zito... Rog -- I suspect that if you did your research, you would find that Tim's percentage of plate appearances against southpaws is higher as a first baseman than as a catcher. It is something a prudent man would address. Don -- .However, his BA as a 1B is almost the same as his BA against LH pitchers...now, which came first the chicken or the egg.... Rog -- We're talking about two related items here, but ones which aren't necessarily tied together. My guess that Buster's batting average against lefties' being close to his battting average against southpaws has a few elements of coincidence in them. But to the extent that isn't true, you may be showing how the two are related, backing up Boagie's point. It blows my mind when someone says something that goes AGAINST the point of view they are taking. It tends to show me they either don't fully understand the situation or aren't looking at the facts objectively. Don --I really do think that some multiple position guys hit better when playing one position Rog -- And you could be right -- although it might be nice if you backed your opinion up better. Your not hitting as well because he tires when he catches doesn't address why he has had the least results when designated hitting or pinch hitting. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1795&page=1#ixzz2UyKoXLF5
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 1, 2013 8:59:41 GMT -5
Don -- there are very few guys who caught as many innings as a good position plays in his career Rog -- Thanks for the BFO. By the way, intuition would tell us that most players would hit less when catching than playing another position. Catchers get beaten up, they get injured, they are more likely to become tired, they have to focus more on defense than any other position player. And as you point out, catchers generally have shorter careers. These factors likely explain why catchers in general don't hit as well as the other power positions. Which is why when a player comes along who can hit well while catching, who is good defensively, who is bright enough to help control the game behind the plate, and whose leadership skills are best utilitized as a catcher, it may well make sense to have that guy catch a lot -- hopefully, while resting him some in an effort to help extend that career a bit and enhance his performance when he does play. You're beating a dead horse here, Don. Why not just enjoy the play of a potential Hall of Famer, rather than continuing to beat? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1795&page=1#ixzz2UyMcbtZS
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 1, 2013 9:03:14 GMT -5
Don -- I still think it would be best for the team if Posey played another position if we could get a quality catcher. Rog -- The Giants DON'T have another quality catcher. Very few teams have a catcher approaching the quality of Buster, let alone two. The Giants feel it is best for Buster to catch. Buster feels it is best for him to catch. Why not drop it before you get further behind, Don? The Giants are taking a risk with their decision. Buster is taking a risk with his. But they are closer to the decision than you are, and perhaps you should respect their decisions. And if you don't, the horse is still dead. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1795&page=1#ixzz2UyOH8mNb
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donk
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Post by donk on Jun 1, 2013 12:17:56 GMT -5
I never cease to be amazed how a simple thing as my opinion not matching yours (anyone) can produce so many insults, etc....It has always been my opinion that Posey would be better off paying in the field...and all the stats supported what I wrote...but that didn't stop you from dissing what I said even though the stats supported it....and my opinion was backed by several of the pros and your fielding bible....now, as some stats have improved, you want ro rip me anew....I'm not beating any dead horse, I just give my observations on a game by game basis...
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