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Post by rxmeister on Jan 19, 2013 8:14:36 GMT -5
Today's the day the Giants bring the 2012 WS trophy to NYC and they're having a private brunch with the New York Giants Preservation Society. By coincidence, one of their high ranking members is my son's old public school social studies teacher, and he invited us. Larry Baer and Brian Sabean will be there and they're bringing Willie Mays! Pablo Sandoval was supposed to be there, but he's probably a no show due to a stomach virus. Buster Posey is in NY though, so we're hoping he's there. I'll get back to you afterwards with all the details.
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Post by sharksrog on Jan 19, 2013 9:58:45 GMT -5
Congratulations on this wonderful opportunity for you and your son, Mark. It surely beats the heck out of attending a rally at the old Jack Tar Hotel to keep the Giants in San Francisco instead of moving to Toronto, as my dad and I attended 35 years ago.
Enjoy the heck out of yourselves!
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Post by rxmeister on Jan 20, 2013 8:28:29 GMT -5
Rog, we had a great time. Sabean, Magowan, Baer and Willie all made speeches and Willie was incredible. At age 81, he's as sharp as he ever was. Told a great story about the four HR game against the Braves. He said he was sick as a dog from eating bad spare ribs the night before, so he told Alvin Dark he couldn't play. Dark told him to take his name off the lineup card, so Willie walked to the end of the dugout and did it. He then decided to take a few swings of batting practice, and the first four pitches he saw he hit out of the ballpark. He then walked back to the lineup card and wrote his name back in. Dark came over to him and said,"Willie, I thought you couldn't play?" Willie replied, "my bat says I can!" There was a Q and A and Willie basically told stories like that for an hour! It was also at this event where Sabean broke the news that Brian Wilson is almost definitely not returning. Apparently the Giants not offering him arbitration and making him a free agent really hurt him, even though the Giants would have been crazy not to have done this. I guess he feels he was owed this by the Giants for past performance. Sabean pretty much made it sound like Wilson would take less to pitch elsewhere. By the way, he worked out for the Mets last week and they were unimpressed by what they saw. He'll be lucky to get a major league deal from anyone.
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donk
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Post by donk on Jan 20, 2013 13:39:45 GMT -5
There are two sides to the "Wilson" story...some people think that Wilson owed the team because he collected a full years salary for pitching 2 innings....from the other side, pitchers know that there are very few guys that last for any length of time as a closer....I would think someone with an injury background should accept a nominal salary with a performance bonus system based on innings and results....
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Post by sharksrog on Jan 21, 2013 9:51:23 GMT -5
I had heard most of the four homer story. Not surprisingly, he ate the ribs with Willie McCovey. I listened to that game, and the one time he made an out, he hit a line drive to CENTERfielder Hank Aaron. I believe that came between the first two homers and the last two.
Willie was on deck to hit a sixth time, when Jimmy Davenport made the Giants' final out of the ninth. The Milwaukee fans are said to have booed that Willie didn't get a chance to break the record, which was held among others by Braves first baseman Joe Adcock. Adcock not only hit four homers in one game, he added a double. So I presume his 18 total bases are the most by any hitter in one game.
As for Wilson, if the Giants could sign him to a low contract with heavy incentives and an option year or (preferably) two, I might well take a chance -- depending on how the team medical staff viewed the situation. I suspect that if Brian is able to pitch by midseason he will be doing well. I'm not sure there is much precedent for a return from a SECOND Tommy John surgery, but I don't think it is unprecedented. I think the recovery time is expected to be longer the second time though.
But Wilson is a workout freak, so if anyone can speed up the time table it would seem to be he.
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Post by sharksrog on Jan 21, 2013 9:54:20 GMT -5
Back to your great experience for you and your son, Mark, I just think that's the greatest. Father/son moments are so wonderful, and that's got to be one of the best you two will ever have together. I'm SO glad you were both able to have it together.
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donk
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Post by donk on Jan 21, 2013 15:02:28 GMT -5
Back to your great experience for you and your son, Mark, I just think that's the greatest. Father/son moments are so wonderful, and that's got to be one of the best you two will ever have together. I'm SO glad you were both able to have it together. dk...I sure hope that Mark and his son will have many great experiences together other than baseball related....however, baseball experiences have a deep imprint in ones memories....I sure wish Willy Mays had some of the humility, he appears to have now, when he was in his prime and he snubbed my son and me several times without even acknowledging we were 2 of his biggest fans... |
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Post by sharksrog on Jan 22, 2013 12:32:38 GMT -5
I've got three more Willie Mays things for you, Mark, each of them on the defensive side of the ledger.
First, Willie made a catch in Pittsburgh of which none other than Branch Rickey said, "That's the greatest catch I've ever seen, and the greatest catch I ever hope to see."
Second, Joe DiMaggio -- Willie's hero growing up -- said Willie had the best arm he had ever seen.
Third, Willie came within a cat's whisker of THROWING for the "cycle." In one game he threw out a runner at home, another at third, and double up a guy off first. He then made a throw to second that would have gotten the guy trying for a double if Tito Fuentes hadn't turned the wrong way, allowing the batter/runner to sneak in ahead of the tag.
On the base running side, Tom Seaver marvelled at how Willie in his 40's could still slow down to draw a throw, allowing the runner or runners behind him to also take the extra base.
Regarding taking the extra base, did you know players today are able to do so less than half the time, despite the extra speed in the game? That's how good the positioning of fielders is, how strong the arms are, and how quickly outfielders get to the ball.
We used to complain how the Giants played "station to station" baseball, but in reality, most baseball is played station to station.
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Post by rxmeister on Jan 25, 2013 20:17:11 GMT -5
Some fan brought up the Mays "cycle" of throwing someone out at every base during the meeting last Saturday. They also mentioned he's the only player to have hit a homerun in every inning from inning one to inning SIXTEEN. They also told a funny story about how Willie was knocked down by Don Newcombe on consecutive pitches and complained to the ump. The ump went to the mound and came back and said, "Mr. Mays, Mr. Newcombe apologizes!" Don then threw a strike and Willie hit it into the bleachers. When he crossed home he told the umpire to go the mound and say, "Mr. Newcombe, Mr. Mays apologizes!"
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donk
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Post by donk on Jan 25, 2013 21:06:35 GMT -5
I've got three more Willie Mays things for you, Mark, each of them on the defensive side of the ledger. First, Willie made a catch in Pittsburgh of which none other than Branch Rickey said, "That's the greatest catch I've ever seen, and the greatest catch I ever hope to see." Second, Joe DiMaggio -- Willie's hero growing up -- said Willie had the best arm he had ever seen. dk...I never saw anything in print but midway in Willie's career I think he had something wrong with his arm...I based this on the the following....he stopped taking fielding practice, he underhanded the ball back to the infield when he could, his first throw was his only strong throw, he hooked his thumb under his belt between pitches...something I learned to do when my arm was acting up from bursitis..too bad Joe didn't get to see Mel Ott throw more than he did..... |
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Post by rxmeister on Jan 27, 2013 11:30:34 GMT -5
Don, you probably didn't see it in print because that's the kind of thing the team doesn't want to get out. Teams would be taking extra bases on him if they knew. Peter Magowan was there talking about how as a kid he would go to the Polo Grounds and watch fielding practice and every throw Willie would make would be a perfect one hopper to the third baseman.
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Post by sharksrog on Jan 27, 2013 11:50:41 GMT -5
Mark -- Some fan brought up the Mays "cycle" of throwing someone out at every base during the meeting last Saturday. They also mentioned he's the only player to have hit a homerun in every inning from inning one to inning SIXTEEN. They also told a funny story about how Willie was knocked down by Don Newcombe on consecutive pitches and complained to the ump. The ump went to the mound and came back and said, "Mr. Mays, Mr. Newcombe apologizes!" Don then threw a strike and Willie hit it into the bleachers. When he crossed home he told the umpire to go the mound and say, "Mr. Newcombe, Mr. Mays apologizes!" Rog -- Thanks for that last story. I hadn't heard it. By the way, while Willie is one of the great base runners of all time, he DID make a few mistakes on the paths, especially very early in his career. Four come to mind. . After having rounded second base on a fly ball that was spectacularly caught, Willie cut across the pitchers' mound on his way back to first. . A fielder once asked Willie to step off the base so he could kick the dirt off. Willie politely obliged, only to find the fielder still had the ball. . Willie scored 100 or more runs in what I believe is a record 12 seasons. It would have been 13, except that Willie missed third base while scoring against the Cubs. Ron Santo appealed, and Willie was called out. . Willie was fantastic at drawing throws, often JUST beating the throw while another runner or runners advanced. But I did see Roberto Clemente nail him on the play late in Willie's career, throwing a strike to THIRD BASEMAN Maury Wills. On that play, Roberto got Willie by about a yard. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1432&page=1#8509#ixzz2JC9cp6gI |
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Post by sharksrog on Jan 27, 2013 11:54:54 GMT -5
dk...I never saw anything in print but midway in Willie's career I think he had something wrong with his arm...I based this on the the following....he stopped taking fielding practice, he underhanded the ball back to the infield when he could, his first throw was his only strong throw, he hooked his thumb under his belt between pitches Rog -- You are right about that, although your story differs just SLIGHTLY from Willie's. Willie said he would make one strong throw in fielding practice in order to disguise his sore arm and help prevent runners from running on him. As for the semi-underhanded throw back to the infield, Willie did that a high percentage of the time regardless of his arm. I'm sure Don and probably a few others here know what Willie did when he trotted on and off the field. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1432&page=1#ixzz2JCBjNWGM |
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Post by sharksrog on Jan 27, 2013 11:59:07 GMT -5
Mark -- Some fan brought up the Mays "cycle" of throwing someone out at every base during the meeting last Saturday. They also mentioned he's the only player to have hit a homerun in every inning from inning one to inning SIXTEEN. Rog -- There are a few fans out there who know that fact, although they are in the minority. Anyone know who is second all-time to Willie in extra-inning home runs? It has been mentioned here before, and the player is a former Giant. I might mention that the player hit one of them just as my wife was starting labor when our son was born. And the player will be mentioned here soon in another context. This player's number wasn't retired, and another good player of the same name later wore that number for the Giants. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1432&page=1#ixzz2JCChhjtD |
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donk
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Post by donk on Jan 27, 2013 18:58:33 GMT -5
the fact that in 1955 Willie hit 9 homers in 11 games in Ebbets Field might have been the reason that the Dodgers started to look for a new park and ended up with the Giants moving to SF....
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donk
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Post by donk on Jan 27, 2013 19:03:29 GMT -5
vSecond, Joe DiMaggio -- Willie's hero growing up -- said Willie had the best arm he had ever seen. dk...if Jolten Joe is the defining judge it should also be said that Joe thought Carl Hubbell was the toughest pitcher he ever faced.....  |
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Post by sharksrog on Jan 28, 2013 13:59:56 GMT -5
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donk
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Post by donk on Jan 29, 2013 14:35:20 GMT -5
Don -- the fact that in 1955 Willie hit 9 homers in 11 games in Ebbets Field might have been the reason that the Dodgers started to look for a new park and ended up with the Giants moving to SF.... Rog -- I think the reason was far more economic in nature. Read more: dk...economics was the biggest reason, but very little was ever said about the economics were as much about the Long Island Railroad.....O'Malley was a major stockholder of the failing LIRR. he wanted that spot in downtown Brooklyn next to the LIRR station for the Dodgers...new stadium for the Dodgers and new station for the RR...and lots of new business for the RR because lots of Dodger fans had joined the "White Flight" to LI...the Dodgers were one of the biggest baseball money makers in Ebbets Field, but they wanted more...and O'Malley was going to lose money on his RR stock....and the dumbest thing, never mentioned in the LA press was despite the great success, money wise, of the Dodgers in LA, the Mets were always rated the better investment when they moved into Queens, where NY wanted O'Malley to go....and the Mets didn't even own the ball park... |
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