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Post by sharksrog on Nov 29, 2012 12:21:52 GMT -5
Boagie and I like the idea of pursuing Logan Morrison. He appears to have significant upside. On the other hand, he apparently is a Nick Swisher-like fielder and clubhouse clown.
The Marlins are said to be looking for a low-priced center fielder, planning to play Giancarlo Stanton and Juan Pierre at the corners. I presume they are planning to play Morrison at first base.
Perhaps the Marlins would be interested in Gary Brown as their long-term center fielder.
Apparently the Braves are going to sign B.J. Upton at 5/$75 million, narrowing the center field free agent supply. Not sure how B.J.'s contract might affect Angel Pagan, but Pagan now has one fewer competitor on the market. I wouldn't think Pagan's chances of receiving 4/$50 were hurt by Upton's signing.
In a side matter, the rather astute Rays have signed Mike Fontenot to a minor league contract. Fontenot is far from a star, but signing him to a minor league pact seems a shrewd depth move.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 29, 2012 13:54:59 GMT -5
Rog- Apparently the Braves are going to sign B.J. Upton at 5/$75 million, narrowing the center field free agent supply. Not sure how B.J.'s contract might affect Angel Pagan, but Pagan now has one fewer competitor on the market. I wouldn't think Pagan's chances of receiving 4/$50 were hurt by Upton's signing.
Boagie- You don't? I like Pagan better for the Giants, but B.J. was said to be the more attractive free agent, likely because of his power and youth. I think now the 3 year deal is probably looking better to Pagan. Unless the Phillies want to pony up that money (which I don't think they do any more than the Giants) the Giants now have Pagan right where they want him.
I'm glad too, I'm getting kind of tired of watching players try to hold out on the teams that pay them tons of money. Brian Wilson saying he could see himself in a Dodger uniform, Pagan making his wife tweet stuff about how she doesn't know how they can stay in S.F. now..it's gotten ridiculous.
Bochy and Sabean were nice enough to let Pagan be a part of a championship team for the first time in his career, how does he thank the Giants? by rejecting what is likely a very fair offer by the Giants. This just proves that winning really means nothing to them, what means more to them is their lavish lifestyle.
What we learned last year is that we don't need Brian Wilson anymore, and in fact, Romo was actually better in the post season than Wilson was in 2010. Do I want Brian Wilson back? Of course, but he needs to realize he's done almost nothing for us for two years and he's been paid millions during that time. You ain't worth 6-8 million Brian, get that through your thick skull. You've not gotten 2 WS rings and one of those you didn't even earn. If you honestly believe you're worth that much money after two Tommy John surgeries and would seriously like to play for the Dodgers then see yourself to the door.
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 29, 2012 22:17:42 GMT -5
The market is drying up quickly for Pagan, as the latest team to drop out are the Nationals, as they've acquired Denard Span from the Twins. I believe it's only the Phillies and Giants actively looking for center fielders and there's still Michael Bourn and Shane Victorino to choose from. To be fair to Pagan, the Giants haven't made him the offer he wants. He's 31 and looking at the best contract he'll ever get, and all the Giants are offering is two years. A player his age would want more of a commitment than that. Scutaro's 37 and he should expect that not a player six years younger.
As for Brian Wilson, I don't see him with the Dodgers. I think they've had enough of sore armed Giants pitchers. They'll be pressure on the Giants to bring him back from fans and media, and he's worth more to the Giants than other teams. I have heard of the Red Sox having interest though, and he's from that area.
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 30, 2012 11:44:53 GMT -5
Boagie -- Bochy and Sabean were nice enough to let Pagan be a part of a championship team for the first time in his career, how does he thank the Giants? Rog -- Were the Giants doing Pagan a favor, or did they think he was the best center fielder they could acquire? Bogaie -- by rejecting what is likely a very fair offer by the Giants. Rog -- When you are considering which job to take, do you value a fair offer more highly or the higher or highest offer? Boagie -- This just proves that winning really means nothing to them, what means more to them is their lavish lifestyle. Rog -- How does it prove that? We're talking about one instance. If Pagan took a lesser offer to stay with the Giants because he believed they gave him the best chance to win (presumably the World Championship), would that prove that for all players, playing to earn their lavish lifestyles really means nothing, and that winning means more? One example does not a theory prove. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1388&page=1#7731#ixzz2Dj0Ea97Y |
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 30, 2012 11:49:20 GMT -5
Boagie -- What we learned last year is that we don't need Brian Wilson anymore Rog -- How did we learn that? We learned the Giants didn't NEED Brian Wilson last season. But how did we learn that the Giants won't need him in the futurek? Boagie -- , and in fact, Romo was actually better in the post season than Wilson was in 2010. Rog -- I have long felt Sergio was the better pitcher. There was this somewhat ridiculous question as to whether Sergio could close, but certainly would have taken my chances. Boagie -- Do I want Brian Wilson back? Of course, but he needs to realize he's done almost nothing for us for two years and he's been paid millions during that time. You ain't worth 6-8 million Brian, get that through your thick skull. Rog -- The Giants make the first decision as to whether Brian is worth $6.8 million, and by non-tendering him today -- as they are almost certain to do -- they are saying they don't believe he is. Now it is up to the Giants and the 29 other teams to decide how much he is worth to each of them. Brian doesn 't decide that. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1388&page=1#ixzz2Dj1g9zNU |
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 30, 2012 11:52:41 GMT -5
Not meaning to pick on you here, Boagie, but each team determines how much it believes a player is worth to it, and/or how much they think they can acquire the player for.
Each team has complete control of how much it offers a player.
Why are we blaming the players for the high salaries, when it is the owners who are offering them? If someone offered you an extra hundred thousand of salary for a similar job, would you be likely to reject it?
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 30, 2012 14:24:23 GMT -5
Rog- If someone offered you an extra hundred thousand of salary for a similar job, would you be likely to reject it?
Boagie- #1 - I would be shit-canned if i couldn't perform my job for an entire year. Brian got paid 8 million dollars to sit on the bench last year. Where's the appreciation there? There is none. He's claiming the Giants basically ruined his life by paying him oodles of money to play a game that most of us would play for free. Where's the appreciation for what the Giants have given him? He's become famous, which he wants to be, and he's a multi-millionaire.
Poor Brian, I don't blame him for saying he wants to play for our hated rivals...Yeah, he really appreciates the fans.
#2 If they offered me over a million dollars (which Brian is likely to get) after not being able to perform my job for an enitre year I would probably shit my pants and gladly sign on the dotted line.
It's not really a fair question, because I would gladly play for the Giants for less money. Brian Wilson hasn't been a Giants fan his whole life like me, I get that, but he doesn't have to backstab the team, and the fans that have turned him into a superstar and have paid him more than he's been worth over the past two years.
I just find it ridiculous that a player who spent all year on the bench making 8 million dollars feels the team isn't being fair by not continuing to overpay him. If Brian wanted things to be fair..the fair thing would be for him to give the Giants back most of what he made last year, that to me would be fair.
So my answer is yes, Rog. If I was happy with my current job, and getting paid alot of money the previous year to not do my job, I would certainly be happy with anything they had to offer me especially if there was still a question as to whether or not I could do my job this year. But maybe that's just me. Loyalty does seem to be a dying trait.
Rog- Why are we blaming the players for the high salaries, when it is the owners who are offering them?
Boagie- I don't recall blaming anyone for high salaries, but maybe I did.
The high salaries aren't really the point here, it's the fact that some players will hold out on their currect teams to see if they can squeeze a little bit of money out of another team and create a bidding war, that's 100% greed. I understand if a player wants to switch teams if the team isn't playing well, or if they don't feel appreciated, or if they feel they're being grossly underpaid. Do you think ANY of these are true in the Pagan and Wilson situations?
The Giants have treated their players well. I don't think you can honestly say anyone in a Giants uniform is being underpaid, except for maybe Vogelsong and Posey. And the Vogelsong and Posey situation will likely be handled this year or next with nice contracts. On the flipside how many players do you think were overpaid last year? I think we can agree that the number of players overpaid far exceeds the underpaid.
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 30, 2012 23:44:49 GMT -5
Rog- If someone offered you an extra hundred thousand of salary for a similar job, would you be likely to reject it? Boagie- #1 - I would be shit-canned if i couldn't perform my job for an entire year. Rog -- Not legally, you wouldn't. You would be on workers' comp. Or, if you had signed a guaranteed contract that said you would be paid unless you left the company and couldn't leave your company for a year, you would be paid by your company (perhaps in combination with workers' comp. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1388&page=1#7746#ixzz2DlwFd7er |
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 30, 2012 23:46:17 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 30, 2012 23:49:39 GMT -5
Boagie -- Poor Brian, I don't blame him for saying he wants to play for our hated rivals...Yeah, he really appreciates the fans. Rog -- I don't blame him either. Remember, it is the Giants rejecting HIM -- unless they can give him a pay cut that is within the rules to keep him from shopping his services. Almost anyone would say there would be foolish to do so, but they have the decision to make. Once they make that decision, the decision rests in Brian's hands. I have read where he might be a good fit for the Red Sox, since he grew up there. Why wouldn't he consider the Dodgers, if he lives in SoCal? IMO you are reacting emotionally, not logically. I admire your passion, but regret your lack of logic. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1388&page=1#ixzz2DlxGIwlt |
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 30, 2012 23:50:43 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 30, 2012 23:53:35 GMT -5
Boagie -- So my answer is yes, Rog. If I was happy with my current job, and getting paid alot of money the previous year to not do my job, I would certainly be happy with anything they had to offer me Rog -- Your company wouldn't pay you for not doing your job unless they had to. If you were injured, workers' comp would pay you. And when you were well enough to work again, barring extenuating circumstances, they would have to offer you your job back -- at your former salary. In the Giants' case, they are able to cut Brian's pay by $1.7 million and still make it so he can't play for any other team. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1388&page=1#ixzz2DlyTtcU3 |
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 1, 2012 0:03:54 GMT -5
Boagie -- The high salaries aren't really the point here, it's the fact that some players will hold out on their currect teams to see if they can squeeze a little bit of money out of another team and create a bidding war Rog -- You do know that under certain circumstances teams can keep a player from signing with anyone else for 13 years, don't you? The norm is that they have the ability to keep a player for up to 12 years. The Giants could keep Brian from signing with any other team -- even if they gave him a 20% pay cut. If your employer cut your pay by 20%, could he also keep you from working for any other company? And once you took a job with him, could he keep your from going to another company for up to 12 years? This isn't a case that began with Brian trying to squeeze more money out of his contract or trying to create a bidding war. This began with the Giants' deciding it was in their best interest NOT to keep Brian by cutting his salary 20%. Don't you understand, Boagie, that the Giants could have kept Brian from creating any type of bidding war AND cut his salary by 20?%? The Giants had the power, and they exercised it by feeling they needed to cut Brian's salary by more than 20%. I don't blame them for making that decision. I would have blamed them if they HAD re-signed Brian for $6.8 million. But THEY made the decision to reject Brian under the rules of baseball's player agreement. After they reject him, why SHOULDN'T he have the ability to accept contract offers from other teams after he played for the Giants for nine years? You're blaming Brian for doing what almost any prudent businessman would do. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1388&page=1#ixzz2DlzFgUua |
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 1, 2012 0:06:34 GMT -5
Boagie -- The Giants have treated their players well. I don't think you can honestly say anyone in a Giants uniform is being underpaid, except for maybe Vogelsong and Posey Rog -- Under the rules of baseball, NO Giants player is being underpaid -- even Buster at just $615,000. But compared to what they could receive if they were able to accept bids for their services, about a third of the roster is being underpaid. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1388&page=1#ixzz2Dm1fSQ00 |
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 1, 2012 0:10:52 GMT -5
Boagie -- On the flipside how many players do you think were overpaid last year? I think we can agree that the number of players overpaid far exceeds the underpaid. Rog -- It depends on how we define being overpaid and underpaid. If we define it under the rules of baseball, nary a single player was underpaid. If we define it by comparing what a player was paid to what he could have earned if he could have bid out his service, a lot of players were underpaid.] But if we define not being underpaid by the rules of baseball, what Brian Wilson is trying to do if he is non-tendered, is to determine how much he WILL be paid without being underpaid. Don't forget that while the Giants have given up control of Brian, he still might re-sign with them. It's up to them to make the offer Brian likes the best. I doubt it will make good business decision for them to do so, but let's see how it turns out. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1388&page=1#ixzz2Dm2KGTwq |
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Post by klaiggeb on Dec 1, 2012 11:05:34 GMT -5
Bochy and Sabean were nice enough to let Pagan be a part of a championship team for the first time in his career, how does he thank the Giants? by rejecting what is likely a very fair offer by the Giants. This just proves that winning really means nothing to them, what means more to them is their lavish lifestyle. ---boly says--- BINGO!!!!!! Boagie, you nailed it! I am getting sooooo sick and tired of a guyk who's been making multi millions for a few years, come out and say, "I have to take care of my family..." What?  You can't LIVE on 3+ million/year? What frickin' planet are YOU on? They allllllll CLAIM they want the ring... but when they get one? It's the pursuit of a bigger payday. Sorry, that line is old. At least tell the truth. Say what you really mean. "I want more MILLIONS than I have so I can spend more on CRAP I don't need, but want anyway just so I can show off." boly |
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Post by sharksrog on Dec 3, 2012 0:43:34 GMT -5
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