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Post by sharksrog on Nov 22, 2012 11:18:11 GMT -5
Again, a very Happy Thanksgiving to everybody. Relax and enjoy -- and don't forget to be thankful for the abundance we enjoy.
I personally am very thankful for this board. It's just one of many of life's little pleasures, but it sure is fun, isn't it?
Tomorrow is the so-called Black Friday. (Anyone know how it got its name?) It is the theoretical beginning of the shopping season.
Which players would you like to see the Giants shopping for?
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 22, 2012 11:56:09 GMT -5
Happy Thanksgiving to you too, Rog, and everyone else on the board.
I'm thankful for this board, it is fun. Being away from the Bay Area I don't get a ton of inside information, but here I do. I think we cover just about everything.
I'm also thankful for two chapionships in 3 years, although I think we're getting a little spoiled..we're still talking about how we can improve a team that won the WS in 4 games. Just give us the same guys from last year (minus Cabrera) and It'll be a happy holiday for me.
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 22, 2012 14:36:25 GMT -5
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. Don't want to be greedy with two championships in the last three years, but I sure would like to see Pagan and Scutaro signed, PLUS a quality outfielder along the lines of Cody Ross or Michael Bourne as an FA, or a trade for someone along the lines of Josh Willingham.
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 22, 2012 14:37:01 GMT -5
Boagie -- Just give us the same guys from last year (minus Cabrera) and It'll be a happy holiday for me. Rog -- If the Giants are able to close their deal with Scutaro at a decent rate, I think this is easily possible within their salary budget. Pagan could be expensive, but he won't break the bank, either. With their present roster coming back, I think the Giants could use a righty-hitting outfielder to replace Xavier Nady and a lefty-hitting infielder to replace Ryan Theriot. Theriot might be OK to bring back, but a right-hand hitting outfielder is imperative IMO. Something tells me Santiago Casilla will get traded. If he were coupled with someone else of value, he might well bring a starting outfielder. By himself, he should command a good fourth outfielder, perhaps a marginal starter. Remember, last winter the Giants turned two pitchers and Andres Torres into Angel Pagan and Melky Cabrera. This year's excess would appear to be relief pitchers. I would guess that if the Giants could turn them into a starting outfielder, they would be willing to trade both Casilla and Gregor Blanco or Jose Arias. Really though, if the Giants truly want to bring back this year's roster, I believe they can afford to do so. They have control over everyone except Pagan, Scutaro and Theriot, and I would guess they could return all three of them for around $20 million per season. That's $8 million more than that trio was making this year -- or a combined increase of two-thirds. The Giants could probably bring in a lefty-hitting fielder without spending too much, although a righty-hitting outfielder capable of at least platooning with Blanco would likely cost more. Perhaps $5-$6 million for the pair. Let me ask you this: Would you be happy bringing back this year's team plus Ryan Ludwick and say Orlando Hudson (the latter of whom might be able to be signed to a minor league contract)? Or, since you would likely prefer, substitute Cody Ross for Ludwick. That might be doable. Gosh, though, I would hate the idea of paying Cody Ross (asking price 3/$25) as much as the Blue Jays are paying Melky (2/$16) and guaranteeing him an extra year. At around $5 million I could live with Cody. But I'm telling you, the guy is really a platoon outfielder. Cody has a career .312 OBP against right-handers, and that's just no high enough to start against them. Cody's .783 career OPS isn't bad, but there are two problems I see with it: First, he has had 28% of his plate appearances against southpaws. If the percentage were more normal, his OPS would drop. Second, his OBP is the weak part of his OPS. And while few talk about it a lot, a point of OBP is worth more than a point of SLG. I like Cody a LOT against southpaws. But he is deficient for a corner outfielder against right-handers. If the Giants are going to platoon someone with Blanco, I would hope that outfielder would cost less than Cody is likely to command. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1374&page=1#7647#ixzz2Cyq0UPLW
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Post by rxmeister on Nov 22, 2012 16:10:28 GMT -5
I was very surprised by the year Ryan Ludwick had this year, and the Giants had a lot of trouble getting him out in the playoffs. However, he was pretty craptacular the last few previous years, and I'd be afraid that at the age of 34, he had one of those years Boly refers to a final spurt year (FSY) or others call a "dead cat bounce." I'd prefer Cody Ross platooning with Blanco and getting occasional starts against righties. Of course I'd rather have a higher priced one like Bourn, Upton or Swisher, but two times WS champions have made me pretty content with whatever they choose to do.
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 23, 2012 13:20:01 GMT -5
I was very surprised by the year Ryan Ludwick had this year, and the Giants had a lot of trouble getting him out in the playoffs. However, he was pretty craptacular the last few previous years, and I'd be afraid that at the age of 34, he had one of those years Boly refers to a final spurt year (FSY) or others call a "dead cat bounce."
R---boly says---
Mark, I totally agree. One big year, 40 HRs in '08... and then a high of what, 27 since then? And I'm not all that sure THAT wasn't a fluke.
He fits the Cincinatti bandbox quite well; short porches, ball flies... and will not that much ground to cover in the outfield.
In SF? No thank you!
I continue to say the same thing; whomever plays out there MUST have at least the range that Cabrera had... And I wasn't all that happy with his range, considering his speed and all.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 23, 2012 14:06:44 GMT -5
Mark -- I was very surprised by the year Ryan Ludwick had this year, and the Giants had a lot of trouble getting him out in the playoffs. However, he was pretty craptacular the last few previous years, and I'd be afraid that at the age of 34, he had one of those years Boly refers to a final spurt year (FSY) or others call a "dead cat bounce." I'd prefer Cody Ross platooning with Blanco and getting occasional starts against righties. Of course I'd rather have a higher priced one like Bourn, Upton or Swisher, but two times WS champions have made me pretty content with whatever they choose to do. Rog -- Michael Bourn has only a .704 career OPS, he had a career-high 22% strikeouts and a career-high 8.7% swing-through percentage last season, and speedsters tend not to age well. I'll pass. B.J. Upton had a career high or near it in strikeout and swing-through percentages last season, he swung at a career-high percentage of pitches outside the strike zone, he walked at a career-low pace, he has batted just .214 over his career in late and close situations, and while RBI's are somewhat teammate-dependent, his career high in RBI's is 82. Not as strongly as with Bourn, since Upton is just 28, but I'll pass. Swisher gets on base, rarely swings at bad pitches and averages more than four pitches per at bat. He doesn't have speed, but defensively he's pretty good on balls he gets to. Problem is that he'll likely get Hunter Pence-type money and a long contract, which is worrisome at the age of 32 in two days. Still, I would look closely. IMO he's a better player than Angel Pagan. It's hard to know about Ludwick, who as you mention is 34 and had a surprising bounce-back season (PED's?). His power benefitted from playing in Cincy, but he hit on the road, as well. If the price and term weren't bad, I'd give it a go. The guy I'd really like from this group would be Swisher. For value, it might well be Ludwick. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1374&page=1#7655#ixzz2D4WvI0rI
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 23, 2012 14:11:13 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Nov 24, 2012 10:47:51 GMT -5
Boly -- I continue to say the same thing; whomever plays out there MUST have at least the range that Cabrera had... And I wasn't all that happy with his range, considering his speed and all.
Rog -- To meet your requirements, Boly, I would simply leave Gregor Blanco out there (or even better, move him to center and Pagan to left).
---boly says---
Which is what I suggested we do last year.
JHonestly, Rog, I don't think Pagan would even consider accepting that role. HE thinks he's a good CF... and he's not. He's above average, that's all.
We could live with Blanco in CF... but... but we'd STILL have to fill LF in the manner in which I'm suggesting.
Not easy to do.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 26, 2012 13:10:08 GMT -5
It struck me yesterday that it is possible -- and I'm saying only that it is a possibility -- that Ryan Ludwick has begun to take PED's.
Here is something about free agents: Virtually all of them have some type of wart -- or their team would already have wrapped them up.
Ludwick had his first good season in four. Nick Swisher gets on base, but his power, speed and hence defense are declining.
Pagan is a good player who wants very-good-player money and duration. Michael Bourn is a speedster who is likely to decline and who may not be all that much better than Gregor Blanco but will be paid over ten times as much.
B.J. Upton is young, but he has had issues and struck out more last season than ever. He's just a career .255 hitter, and he hasn't hit even .250 in any of the last four seasons.
And it's not as if these guys are cheap.
But now let's look at the other side of the coin. The way to build a team is with your own players. And the Giants have a lot of them.
Madison Bumgarner, Brandon Crawford, Blanco and Brandon Belt are not only wrapped up for a long time, they'll be inexpensive for a while. Buster Posey and Pablo Sandoval are locked up but getting more expensive.
Matt Cain and Ryan Vogelsong are locked up for a while, as well as most of the bullpen. The Giants have a year to decide whether to go long-term with Hunter Pence, who -- along with Marco Scutaro -- seems willing. Even the price of keeping Tim Lincecum has come down a bit, should the Giants choose to go that way. And the Giants have up to two more years of Barry Zito if they want him.
In other words, the Giants have -- and will continue to have -- fewer holes to fill than most teams.
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Post by Islandboagie on Nov 26, 2012 14:07:31 GMT -5
It is possible that Ludwick is taking PEDs...It's also possible that most of the names mentioned in this post are also taking PEDs.
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Post by sharksrog on Nov 26, 2012 17:33:14 GMT -5
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