The Miami Mess

[Islandboagie]

MIAMI -- Mark Buehrle has issued a parting shot at Miami Marlins' management after his stay with the team lasted only one tumultuous season.

The left-hander was part of the blockbuster trade that sent Buehrle, All-Star shortstop Jose Reyes, right-hander Josh Johnson and two other players to the Toronto Blue Jays as the Marlins pared $146.5 million in future payroll.

In a statement issued Wednesday through his agent, Buehrle said he was lied to on multiple occasions, just like Marlins fans. Two Marlins executives did not respond to a request for comment.

Buehrle signed a $58 million, four-year deal with the Marlins during their unprecedented spending spree a year ago. The Marlins then endured a disastrous first season in their new ballpark and finished last in the NL East at 69-93.



Boagie- This Miami deal has been talked about alot recently so I figured I'd touch on it. This ownership group deserved the backlash after the firesale they had after each World Series championship...but after a 93 loss season? I don't see this warranting Buehrle to say anything other than thanks for the paycheck. If the Miami fans or players want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the lunatic who desgned the ugliest stadium in baseball history. Fish tanks behind the on-deck circles...really? And don't get me started on that contraption out in left center.

Although, maybe the players should be angry, and Mike Stanton should demand to be traded to the Giants, we need a left fielder

[sharksrog]

People shouldn't lie to others. I understand your "thanks for the paycheck" sentiment, but if Reyes and Buerhle were told they wouldn't be traded (The Marlins don't give no-trade contracts, but may have made promises), they have a right to be upset.

It might be that the Marlins SHOULD trade Stanton, but the Giants don't really have the prospects to acquire him if the Marlins were indeed to do so.

The Giants are in an enviable situation right now, but also a precarious one. Let's say, for instance, that it would take the Giants 4/$50 to keep Angel Pagan. Would you do it?

And if so, that still leaves left field. How high would you go for Cody Ross? Ryan Ludwick? Nick Swisher? Would you settle for a platoon with Gregor Blanco?

How about second base? Over a week ago the Giants were reported as being close to signing Marco Scutaro. Usually that means within a day or two.

I read that situation as another team(s) coming in with a higher offer than both Scutaro and the Giants were expecting. I think Marco would like to stay here, so it is likely that each side is looking for the other to make concessions and at least meet halfway.

How high would you go for Scutaro?

What do you do with the arbitration-eligible players, most of whom are relief pitchers? The bullpen has been a great strength the past three seasons or so, but do you, for instance, pay Santiago Casilla the $5.4 million or so it is estimated he will receive?

What do you do about Brian Wilson, who by rule can be cut only to $6.8 million? Do you non-tender him and hope you can reach an agreement at a lower price? This is his second Tommy John surgery. How soon can he reasonably come back and be effective?

If you do make a trade for say an outfielder or second baseman, whom do you trade? Do you figure the addition of Jose Mijares can make Javier Lopez available? Would you be willing to trade Hector Sanchez?

Which minor league prospects would you be willing to trade that might being much in return?

Lots of teams are interested in Brandon Belt, but there is a reason for their interest. Do you trade a player who could become one of your top guys? (It is reported that the Giants are very unwilling to trade Belt.)

How do you deal with Buster Posey?

The first time Joe Mauer was arbitriation-eligible, as is the case this winter with Buster, Mauer signed for 4/$33. Four years later when he became eligible for free agency, Mauer got 8/$184.

Joey Votto received 3/$38, then a year later added on 10/$225. Like Buster, Votto had just won the MVP the year he first became eligible for arbitration.

The first time Ryan Howard was eligible for arbitration, he also had just come off the MVP award. He won arbitration for 1/$10. A year later he signed for 3/$54. Now he is in a 5/$125 contract.

Posey's teammate Tim Lincecum was coming off two straight Cy Youngs when he first became eligible for arbitration. Tim signed for 2/$23, then renewed for 2/$40 two years later.

So Buster is going to get paid -- one way or the other. If he goes to arbitration (which he won't), I see no reason he would received less than the 1/$10 Howard received six years ago -- and probably more.

I would think if the Giants could sign Buster for 6/$90, they would be doing extremely well. That would buy out Buster's four arbitration years and his first two free agency seasons.

A year ago the Giants signed Madison Bumgarner for 5/$35 with two option years totaling $24 million. FABULOUS deal for the Giants. They won't be so lucky with Buster.

[Islandboagie]

People shouldn't lie to others. I understand your "thanks for the paycheck" sentiment, but if Reyes and Buerhle were told they wouldn't be traded (The Marlins don't give no-trade contracts, but may have made promises), they have a right to be upset.

Boagie- Why do you think the Marlins don't give no-trade contracts? I think it's pretty obvious.

I agree with you, nobody should be lied to, but they likely made that promise thinking the team wasn't going to suck. They played poorly, and they didn't have a no-trade clause in their contract, this shouldn't come as a suprise to any of them.

It's all about money, the Marlins were expecting a larger attendance and because their team didn't play well they didn't get the attendance they were expecting. So they decided to dump some contracts.

Buerhle knew the risk, he knew that not having a no-trade contract leaves him vulnerable to trades. He's likely upset because he doesn't want to move the family to Canada, but if that's his thinking than maybe he should have signed with another team for less money and more stability, instead of being greedy. I'm sorry, I can't feel bad for ball players today, they're as loyal to their teams as a cat in heat.

Now that doesn't mean I agree with the way the team is run, I think it's run very poorly. Since they became a expansion team back in..'93? they should have grown from within. They should be growing players and keeping most of them, that's how you establish a large base of fans. The Diamondbacks have done basically the same thing the Marlins have. Lots of trading young players for immediate success. They've both had good immediate success, 3 world series championships between them. But yet they still stuggle to bring in the fans.

[sharksrog]

Rog -- People shouldn't lie to others. I understand your "thanks for the paycheck" sentiment, but if Reyes and Buerhle were told they wouldn't be traded (The Marlins don't give no-trade contracts, but may have made promises), they have a right to be upset.

Boagie- Why do you think the Marlins don't give no-trade contracts? I think it's pretty obvious.

I agree with you, nobody should be lied to, but they likely made that promise thinking the team wasn't going to suck.

Rog -- A promise is a promise.

Boagie -- They played poorly, and they didn't have a no-trade clause in their contract, this shouldn't come as a suprise to any of them.

Rog -- I believe a verbal contract can stay in effect for a year. If I were lied to and truly wanted to stay in Miami, I would go to court. Certainly those guys should have plenty of money to do so. Of course, the problem is that it's usually no fun being where you aren't wanted.


Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1373&page=1#7639#ixzz2Cy4F6tPL

[sharksrog]

Boagie -- Now that doesn't mean I agree with the way the team is run, I think it's run very poorly. Since they became a expansion team back in..'93? they should have grown from within. They should be growing players and keeping most of them, that's how you establish a large base of fans. The Diamondbacks have done basically the same thing the Marlins have. Lots of trading young players for immediate success. They've both had good immediate success, 3 world series championships between them. But yet they still stuggle to bring in the fans.

Rog -- Think back before 2010 when Giants fans would have almost sold their souls for a World Championship. The Marlins have two in 20 years, even without spending a whole lot over the years on player contracts.

Perhaps the Marlins are better-run than you are giving them credit for.
Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1373&page=1#ixzz2Cy66c1Lg

[sharksrog]

Happy Thanksgiving to everybody, but why are we talking about the Marlins when we could be talking about the Giants?

The Giants have more questions than one might think for a World Championship team. This should be an exciting winter, even if it is developing slowly.