21 through 25

[sharksrog]

Barring injury, twenty players will be on the Giants' postseason roster:

SP:

Cain
Bumgarner
Lincecum
Vogelsong

RP:

Romo
Casilla
Lopez
Affeldt
Mijares

C:

Posey
Sanchez

1B:

Belt

2B:

Scutaro
Theriot

SS:

Crawford
Arias

3B:

Sandoval

OF:

Pagan
Pence
Blanco


That's nine pitchers, two catchers, six infielders and three outfielders. Let's make a case for players #21 through #25.

. Guillermo Mota -- Experienced and rested (due to PED suspension of 100 games). Probably the Giants' most versatile reliever, since he can go long or pitch as late as the 9th or extra innings.

. George Kontos -- Has been a pleasant find this season. Some long ability, and has been used as high as the #3 right-hander in the bullpen.

. Clay Hensley -- May be as versatile as Mota and has played a bigger role this season than Guillermo. Just came off the disabled list, so he may be rusty -- but should be well-rested.

. Barry Zito -- Experience and lefty arm could prove valuable in long relief, as an emergency starter and even as a LOOGY.

Pitcher summary: With the precise way Bruce Bochy is juggling his relievers, it coud make sense to go with 12 pitchers. Mota, Kontos and Hensley would seem to be the way to go, but adding Zito would provide a 4th lefty out of the pen to go with 4 right-handers.

. Eli Whiteside -- Keeping Whiteside increases flexibility with Posey and Sanchez. Sanchez's bat could be used earlier, and Whiteside would provide insurance against BOTH Sanchez and Posey being injured if both are in the lineup.

. Brett Pill -- The Giants could use his right-handed power bat off the bench.

. Manny Burriss -- Added infield depth, versatility, a switch hitter, and possibly the best pinch runner available.

. Xavier Nady -- Could platoon with Blanco and provide an experienced right-handed power bat off the bench. The most experienced position option.

. Justin Christian -- A good-fielding right-hand hitting outfielder with speed.

. Francisco Peguero -- Similar to Christian, with a better arm but less experience.

Likely to happen: 12 pitchers (to accomodate the mad scientist Bochy) plus the experience of Whiteside and Nady. If the Giants opt to go with 11 pitchers, one of the speed guys -- probably the versatile Burriss, also a good bunter -- will likely be added.

Biggest question: Which pitchers will go? The experience of Mota and Hensley? The solid rookie Kontos? Or in the veteran starter Zito, a pitcher who could possibly fill three different roles?

[klaiggeb]

Likely to happen: 12 pitchers (to accomodate the mad scientist Bochy) plus the experience of Whiteside and Nady. If the Giants opt to go with 11 pitchers, one of the speed guys -- probably the versatile Burriss, also a good bunter -- will likely be added.

Biggest question: Which pitchers will go? The experience of Mota and Hensley? The solid rookie Kontos? Or in the veteran starter Zito, a pitcher who could possibly fill three different roles?

---boly says---

Pretty darned good summary, Rog.

Let's face it, as Bochy has said, he is NOT going to PH for a lot of the guys in the line up.

That being the case, 12 pitchers is a good bet, but it is NOT what I'd do.

We only need 4 starters, BUT... IF we were to play Atlanta, based upon Zito's record against them it would be HARD NOT to have him on the roster... for that series only.

I think IF Nady is healthy we need him.

Burriss, Pill, Peguero, unnecessary baggage.

Of Hensely and Mota... I'll take Mota. With each outting he's gotten better and better, and UNLESS Hensley blows my socks off in the next 2 + weeks, for me, he's the odd man out.

The INTERESTING move is Whiteside. HE provides flexibility to allow Sanchez to be a PH.

So, MY next 5 players?

Firstly, I carry ONLY 11 pitchers.

IF, in a short series we need MORE than that? Ummm.... Houston, we have a problem.

That means I add only 2 pitchers:

1-Mota
2-Kontos

I add 3 position players

1-Nady (IF healthy, for his bat)

2-Christian-PR, OF defense, MORE experience than Peguero, better option than Pill.

3-Whiteside-I think NOT carrying a 3rd catcher, with Sanchez as THE #1 PH.. would be a mistake.

I'm curious about other opinions.

boly

[rxmeister]

I take Hensley over Mota if he's healthy. Mota at best is a long man out of the bullpen, while Hensley was a decent setup man before his slump and injury. If he pitches decently down the stretch, he's my choice. I'm surprised neither of you mentioned Aubrey Huff, who has shown some life lately as a pinch hitter. My five:
1. Huff
2. Nady
3. Kontos
4. Hensley
5. Zito
I doubt Zito will pitch, and you don't need four lefties in the bullpen, but he's been decent this year and leaving him off the playoff roster again after all his years with the team would be very unfair.

[klaiggeb]

I take Hensley over Mota if he's healthy. Mota at best is a long man out of the bullpen, while Hensley was a decent setup man before his slump and injury. If he pitches decently down the stretch, he's my choice. I'm surprised neither of you mentioned Aubrey Huff, who has shown some life lately as a pinch hitter. My five:
1. Huff
2. Nady
3. Kontos
4. Hensley
5. Zito
I doubt Zito will pitch, and you don't need four lefties in the bullpen, but he's been decent this year and leaving him off the playoff roster again after all his years with the team would be very unfair.

---boly says---

Mark, I'll give you Hensely over Mota. That really comes down to just opinion.

But I have to disagree about Huff. He's a one dimensional player.

He'll PH, and MAYBE be an emergency guy at 1B

But he can't run.
Though he's done well lately PHitting, he has little value out side of that.

Keeping Zito because to not keep him would be unfair? I really, really thought about that before posting my 5... but in the end, I just can't see keeping him over a position player in a series OTHER than against Atlanta.

Tonight will tell me a LOT!
Tonight IF he pitches decently to well, I might be inclined to change my mind.

But what I expect?

I expect him to get lit up and be gone by the 3rd inning.

boly

[rxmeister]

Zito's been here for six years now, and he was a good guy about being left off in 2010. I really don't think it's right to do it again. He's been here all year and taken the ball without fail every fifth day. I just don't think it's fair to disrespect him yet again in that way, especially when we're talking about replacing him with borderline players who just got here, like a Xavier Nady or Brett Pill. He hasn't been awful this year, and it just doesn't sit well with me.

[klaiggeb]

Zito's been here for six years now, and he was a good guy about being left off in 2010. I really don't think it's right to do it again. He's been here all year and taken the ball without fail every fifth day. I just don't think it's fair to disrespect him yet again in that way, especially when we're talking about replacing him with borderline players who just got here, like a Xavier Nady or Brett Pill. He hasn't been awful this year, and it just doesn't sit well with me.

---boly says---

You make a good case, Mark.

Still, the goal IS to win.

But that said, I wouldn't put Pill on the roster. Nady... that's an interesting call. HAD he not gotten hurt, he would have been playing regularly.

I still want to keep the 3 guys I said: Nady, Christen, and Whiteside.

IF I were to keep Zito, I'd drop a marginal pitcher: of my group, Mota.

But the reality of it all is, the more I think about it... Whiteside would be the guy I'd do without so I could keep either Mota or Hensley.

And Mota sure did not help his case last night.

boly

[sharksrog]

Mark -- I take Hensley over Mota if he's healthy. Mota at best is a long man out of the bullpen, while Hensley was a decent setup man before his slump and injury.

Rog -- This "battle" is intriguing, and one that could possibly affect even George Kontos. Hensley pitched well early, then fell off (possibly due to injury or a tired arm). Mota has been strong early in the past, then fallen off (similarly to Hensley) as the season went on. PED's have kept Mota's arm fresh, and Hensley's injury may have done the same for him. Meanwhile Kontos, whom I love, has fallen off of late. Perhaps it is HIS arm that is tired now.

Bruce Bochy has shown confidence in Mota since Guillermo's return, so I think he's in. For the final spot it may come down to whether Kontos' arm or Hensley's is the stronger in two and a half weeks.

Philosophically, I'm with Boly on needing fewer pitchers. In 2010 I wanted the Giants to go with just TEN pitchers, figuring Darren Ford might affect a game, while Mota would probably only mop up.

But with this closer-by-committee thing, Bochy is showing a masterful ability to utliize ALL his bullpen. In reality, it's not so much that he has been brilliant but that he has used common sense and gone against conventional wisdom.

So while I kind of hate myself for coming to this conclusion, I would go with the dozen pitchers. (If the Giants play the Reds and Dusty also go with a dozen pitchers, would he have one more, since it would be a Baker's dozen? Sorry, couldn't resist. Bochy uses common sense, but I do not.)


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[sharksrog]

Mark -- I'm surprised neither of you mentioned Aubrey Huff, who has shown some life lately as a pinch hitter.

Rog -- When I saw Aubrey pinch hit, I realized I had totally forgotten him. When I made the list, I had this nagging suspicion ... Huff is in. He does provide an experienced and somewhat revitalized lefty bat off the bench.

My five:
1. Huff
2. Nady
3. Kontos
4. Hensley
5. Zito
I doubt Zito will pitch, and you don't need four lefties in the bullpen, but he's been decent this year and leaving him off the playoff roster again after all his years with the team would be very unfair.

Rog -- I think Mota will crack the list, and Zito's chances are looking better and better.

Looking at Barry, yesterday for the first time I could see him replacing Vogelsong as the #4 starter. Barry certainly outpitched Ryan over the weekend. Barry may have value as a postseason starter if one keeps him on a short hook, which with 12 pitchers and more days off, might be feasible.

Let's assume for now that Vogelsong is kept in the rotation. (Let's see how he does in his last three starts, the last of which should come on the penultimate day of the season, unless the Giants choose to rest him.)

Zito could add to the madness of Bochy's bullpen. (I can see the beakers bubbling and the vapor rising.) Obviously Barry could be an emergency starter. Clearly he could definitely put the l-o-n-g in long reliever. And maybe there is yet another use for him.

With Zito available, Bruce could start his mixing and matching of the bullpen perhaps a batter or two earlier. Barry's OPS against lefty hitters this season is -- get this -- .558 (!).

This time I think barring a collapse the rest of the way, I've got to have Barry on my roster -- either as a starter or as the combination long man/4th lefty out of the bullpen. Having a 4th lefty out of the pen is both common sense and a clever ingredient with which the madman Bochy can create even more mystical combinations.

[klaiggeb]

So while I kind of hate myself for coming to this conclusion, I would go with the dozen pitchers.

---boly says---

Rog, I don't disagree with your logic, or Mark's, or mine.

I have favored keeping a 3rd catcher, Mark believes we should keep Zito. And frankly, based upon his last 2 outtings, and Vogey's last 7? Mark and Barry have made a strong case.

Whatever Bochy decides will be a tough decision.

All I care about is that we win, and get back to the series.

boly

[sharksrog]

Boly -- I have to disagree about Huff. He's a one dimensional player.

He'll PH, and MAYBE be an emergency guy at 1B

But he can't run.
Though he's done well lately PHitting, he has little value out side of that.

Rog -- Very good assessment of Aubrey, but isn't the bottom of the postseason roster all ABOUT having specialists? Heck, I would love to have Emmanuel Burriss on the roster, just for his pinch running and bunting.

Television has made the postseason a different animal. The fifth starter isn't needed, and sometimes a team will use just three. The roster depth that is so vital in the marathon that is the regular season suddenly becomes more of a luxury than a necessity. Heck, if the Giants had to, they could put together the darn good 20-man roster we showed and have a chance to be competitive.

Assuming 12 pitchers, it would seem the last spot would come down to the pinch hitting value of Huff versus the bunting, base running and positional versatility of Burriss. Because when Blanco starts in left field the only lefty bat on the bench would otherwise be Hector Sanchez and because Sanchez's bat would have to be used selectively without a third catcher, I would go with Aubrey.

A bench of Arias, Theriot, Sanchez, Nady and Huff against righty pitchers isn't bad.

I'm assuming Nady will get healthy and will at least be able to pinch hit and be available for double switches. Without him, Justin Christian or the just-out-of-jail swinging Francisco Peguero, the Giants would have only three outfielders.


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[sharksrog]

Boly -- I still want to keep the 3 guys I said: Nady, Christen, and Whiteside.

Rog -- The danger there is that when Gregor Blanco starts, there is no lefty bat off the bench with the exception of the switch-hitting Hector Sanchez. At least you have Whiteside on the roster to "protect" Hector's availability to pinch hit.


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