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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 9, 2013 10:16:03 GMT -5
the more I watch our hitters, the more alarmed I become at what I consider a trend in modern baseball;
LACK of pitch recognition.
On our club, only Posey, and Scutaro have great pitch recognition.
They see the spin early, and recognize what's coming. Thus they are rarely off balance.
But I need to explain, and what follows is a walk through of what a hitter sees, or in the case of Belt, and many others in baseball DON'T see.
Pitch recognition is, IMHO, one of the things that separates the good hitter from the bad hitter.
1-Fastballs spin bottom to top.
When a two seamer is thrown, the hitter sees a lot of "white," and not that much red.
A four seemer spins the same way, but the hitter sees a LOT of red because 4 seams are spinning, more or less vertically
2-Breaking balls spin top to bottom, and a hitter will see a LOT of red from the 4 seam action.
3-Sliders spin right to left, and the hitter will often see a "dot" in the center of the ball.
When the ball is released by the pitcher, and this is from personal experience, EVERYTHING seems to slow down; almost to move in slow motion.
In your head you're AWARE of the spin, and there is a conscious thought; curve/fastball, whatever.
The really good hitters see this early, and thus, rarely get fooled.
Others, like Belt, get fooled a lot by breaking stuff because they don't recognize the spin early in the delivery.
The question, then, is why? Why do some hitters see it earlier than others.
And to this, I have a theory.
Pitch recognition is learned at a young age.
But, if you watch most high school, yeah, once in a while you face a live arm, but all too often, kids hit off a Jugs Machine, whether it's on the field, or in a cage.
Jugs machines "pitch" the ball by squeezing it between to quickly spinning tires. And the ball JUMPS at the hitter
I believe that it is the very nature of the jugs machine that causes the problem because pitch recognition ISN'T necessary.
The hitter anticipates the "poof" of the ball coming out of the slot, they lift the front leg prior, and get it down, and then just react.
They DON'T simulate the arm action of the pitcher at all.
Jugs machines throw special balls, not necessarily baseballs because IF they did, the seams would cause erratic action and get kids hit.
The old fashioned machines, with the 'arm' were better because it more accurately simulates the "arm action" of a pitcher.
They also used real baseballs, and because there weren't 2 tires spinning at 50mph or faster, the balls went straight.
Kids also used to face more live pitching in BP because most places couldn't afford the machines.
Anyway, that's my theory.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 19, 2013 9:36:05 GMT -5
Boly -- The question, then, is why? Why do some hitters see it earlier than others. Rog -- I wonder too if it might not be spatial abilities. Some people can take pieces and quickly tell what they will shape into, and others flat-out can't. There must have been a study done on this. I do like the idea of learning early, when minds are most impressionable. And not to be mean, but that could be part of why Don's mind is so hard to change. I hadn't thought of that before in quite that light. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1998#ixzz2fLiDTdJz
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Post by dk on Sept 19, 2013 15:22:16 GMT -5
Boly -- The question, then, is why? Why do some hitters see it earlier than others. Rog -- I wonder too if it might not be spatial abilities. Some people can take pieces and quickly tell what they will shape into, and others flat-out can't. There must have been a study done on this. I do like the idea of learning early, when minds are most impressionable. And not to be mean, but that could be part of why Don's mind is so hard to change. I hadn't thought of that before in quite that light. dk yeh, right...try being an Engineer without spatial abilities.. outside of laying out the largest plant in the country (Willow Run) to produce 2 different aircraft at rates never achieved before...I also designed a factory from the ground up to manufacture a missile that was still not designed, to use robots not yet programmed in a labor market that was short of aerospace workers......and in the pure definition of spatial. I worked on the Apollo and Saturn programs that put the first men on the moon....
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 20, 2013 4:50:14 GMT -5
Rog -- I wonder too if it might not be spatial abilities. Some people can take pieces and quickly tell what they will shape into, and others flat-out can't. There must have been a study done on this. I do like the idea of learning early, when minds are most impressionable. And not to be mean, but that could be part of why Don's mind is so hard to change. I hadn't thought of that before in quite that light. dk yeh, right...try being an Engineer without spatial abilities.. Rog -- No one said you didn't have good spatial abilities, so your comment here is typically meaningless. What I did say is that your mind is very hard to change. And your elusiveness here would seem to indicate why. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1998&page=1#15119#ixzz2fQPMcwIx
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Post by dk on Sept 20, 2013 22:14:20 GMT -5
Rog -- I wonder too if it might not be spatial abilities. Some people can take pieces and quickly tell what they will shape into, and others flat-out can't. There must have been a study done on this. I do like the idea of learning early, when minds are most impressionable. And not to be mean, but that could be part of why Don's mind is so hard to change. I hadn't thought of that before in quite that light. dk yeh, right...try being an Engineer without spatial abilities.. Rog -- No one said you didn't have good spatial abilities, so your comment here is typically meaningless. What I did say is that your mind is very hard to change. And your elusiveness here would seem to indicate why. dk..once more you lie thru your dentures and your nose has just reached LA....I can't believe you can print that statement and say you didn't say my problem(?) is I didn't have good spatial abilities.....yes, my mind is hard to change when you fill pages with meaningless junk that proves nothing.....
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 21, 2013 10:18:44 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 21, 2013 10:19:39 GMT -5
Don, take us step-by-step on your reasoning here. Perhaps it would help us to undertand you better.
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 22, 2013 9:59:05 GMT -5
Boly -- The question, then, is why? Why do some hitters see it earlier than others.
Rog -- I wonder too if it might not be spatial abilities. Some people can take pieces and quickly tell what they will shape into, and others flat-out can't.
---boly says---
Spatial abilities? Maybe, but my first thoughts would be, no; it has to be something different.
That's why I blame Jugs Machines.
Consider; Modern hitters look for a "spot" where the ball will come from; a spot above, near, or below a pitcher's shoulder.
THAT is a jug's machine concept. The ball just POOFS out, all of a sudden.
With the old arm machines, you watched the arm's entire action.
Now, let's apply this to pitching. I contend a good hitter watches the entire arm action of a pitcher from the moment the ball leaves the glove and he starts his windup.
THAT causes the brain to be absolutely locked in, majorly focused, upon the ball IN the hand.
Thus WHEN the ball leaves the hand, the hitter SEES it immediately.
If the hitter is simply looking for a "spot" where the ball will come from, that honed in concentration is not there. All they can do is 'react.'
Just like you do to a Jugs Machine.
Anyway, that's my theory, and I'll BET most hitting coaches would disagree.
Every coach I've ever dealt with LOVE the Jugs machine.
And why? Likely because of cost. Those old arm machines were heavy and expensive to maintain.
Me? I think Jugs causes more problems than it helps
boly
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Post by dk on Sept 22, 2013 18:04:17 GMT -5
The question, then, is why? Why do some hitters see it earlier than others. Rog -- I wonder too if it might not be spatial abilities. Some people can take pieces and quickly tell what they will shape into, and others flat-out can't. Don -- I can't believe you can print that statement and say you didn't say my problem(?) is I didn't have good spatial abilities Rog -- Perhaps you can show us WHERE I said you didn't have spatial abilities. I'm beginning to think you're paranoid. Boly and I are talking about how a hitter recognizes a pitch and suddenly we're talking about YOU? dk///...well, little nerd brain, why did YOU bring my name into your talk about hitters, I Haven't been up to bat in 40 years.... and as usual, you make insinuating accusations and than say "I never said that about you".....you are one little person mand I think you are paying the price for it.....
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Post by dk on Sept 22, 2013 18:12:07 GMT -5
Boly -- The question, then, is why? Why do some hitters see it earlier than others. Rog -- I wonder too if it might not be spatial abilities. Some people can take pieces and quickly tell what they will shape into, and others flat-out can't. There must have been a study done on this. I do like the idea of learning early, when minds are most impressionable. And not to be mean, but that could be part of why Don's mind is so hard to change. I hadn't thought of that before in quite that light. dk..well, nerd face....ie..could be spatial abilities...could be part of why Don's mind.., etc'''so you little liar....what is your excuse now...and in my last at bat 40 years ago, I drilled a line drive,....
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Post by allenreed on Sept 22, 2013 18:23:45 GMT -5
Nerd face. Clever. Maybe you should go down to the local elementary school so you can find people who will argue with you on your level.
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Post by dk on Sept 22, 2013 23:50:47 GMT -5
Nerd face. Clever. Maybe you should go down to the local elementary school so you can find people who will argue with you on your level dk..I got you and Rog to argue with...that is as low as it can go....and why do you get bent out of shape on what I say since I am not the only one who use common language....and a big right wing-nut like you should be all for freedom of speech....nice film on the KKK in Indiana on PBS...nice picture of 2 lynched Blacks and many unmasked Indiana people looking at the hanging bodies and smiling....
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Post by allenreed on Sept 23, 2013 1:39:44 GMT -5
Hardly bent out of shape. More embarassed for you than anything else. It's like listening to Pelosi. As much as you disagree with her, you find yourself feeling bad for her and wondering why her Dr. doesn't adjust her meds.
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 23, 2013 2:17:56 GMT -5
This is getting good. But what does a documentary on the KKK have to do with anything?
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 23, 2013 10:54:28 GMT -5
Not wanting to get off baseball, but isn't the KKK one of the worst things every to happen in our fine country? A simple "yes" will do.
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Post by allenreed on Sept 23, 2013 12:03:01 GMT -5
That seems to be the answer you want to most of what you post here. Not that I disagree with you about the Klan, but are the Black Panthers any better? Crips? Bloods? Zetas?
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 23, 2013 12:26:13 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on Sept 23, 2013 14:33:28 GMT -5
I would make a bet that the Bloods and Crips have killed more people than the KKK ever thought of killing. In fact I'd bet that they've killed more black people than the KKK ever thought of killing. Not defending the Klan mind you, just pointing out that they're not the only one.
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 23, 2013 14:49:59 GMT -5
Now, back to hitting, something we wish the Giants had done more of this season.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 23, 2013 22:19:54 GMT -5
The Klan were killing people simply because of the color of their skin, which is something those other groups don't do. The gangs are mostly killing other gang members, not innocents, like the Klan has always done. Also, the Black Panthers are more of a political group, I wouldn't include them with the likes of the others you mentioned. And yes, I know there's been radicals in that group who have killed, but every movement has it's share of extremists.
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Post by allenreed on Sept 23, 2013 23:54:35 GMT -5
Yeah they are. a three year old kid got shot in the face in Chicago last week. Helluva job there by Rahm Emanuel. Chicago is now known as murder capital of the world. In Oakland recently a small child was killed while sleeping in her bed. Another was killed sitting on the porch doing her homework, yet another was killed while standing in front of his father's lunch truck, yet another was paralyzed while taking a piano lesson. These people don't give a damn who they kill. Interesting. if you're white you're racist. Non-white you're just an extremist. Oh, and after the recent events in Kenya and Pakistan, tell me again how the Muslims are our friends. I read where they caught three of these Al Shabab guys in NY. Why would they publicize that? Take them to a field, make them dig a hole, and then put them in it. No publicity, no report, no nothing. They just disappear. And they know where their training camps are in Somalia. Vaporize them.
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 24, 2013 10:23:29 GMT -5
Now, back to hitting, something the Giants will be looking for in the off-season as they work to come up with a new left fielder.
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 24, 2013 10:47:02 GMT -5
Not that I don't agree with you guys, but the original comment was the KKK being the worst thing to happen to the country. All of the examples given are bad, but the KKK infiltrated the core of society and justice system. Today you don't see many police or clergymen throwing up gang signs. This fact alone I believe makes the KKK a bigger scar in the history books. That doesn't mean I condone the blatant complacency by the liberals on the ever-rising crime in urban communities that they claim to care so much about.
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Post by dk on Sept 24, 2013 12:35:14 GMT -5
Not that I don't agree with you guys, but the original comment was the KKK being the worst thing to happen to the country. All of the examples given are bad, but the KKK infiltrated the core of society and justice system. Today you don't see many police or clergymen throwing up gang signs. This fact alone I believe makes the KKK a bigger scar in the history books. That doesn't mean I condone the blatant complacency by the liberals on the ever-rising crime in urban communities that they claim to care so much about . dk..the Klan wasn't just anti Black...they were anti Catholic, anti Jewish and they infested the political system as well...the Black and Latino gangs are killing each other over drug money...the Mafia and Russians and White Supremist(?)..and all the others are still around doing their thing.....and whom are the liberals who condone crime???
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Post by allenreed on Sept 24, 2013 12:36:21 GMT -5
Oh, I would certainly disagree. Gang type violence, the culture, and the accompanying substance abuse problems have killed so many innocent people, and ruined the lives of so many more. It's led to many of our cities and schools being unsafe, raised the dropout rates in our schools, made teen pregnancy a huge problem, and led to the breakdown of many families. It's also made many young people unemployable criminals, because the gangster culture tells them to forego their education for a life of crime and substance abuse. Basically, it's leading to the breakdown of our basic values and institutions.
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Post by allenreed on Sept 24, 2013 12:55:53 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks that the gangs are just killing each other are worse than ignorant. They force young kids to join the gangs, force people to buy drugs, and they don't give a damn who's around when they start the gunplay. Inner city homes are just prisons because the streets are unsafe. In Chicago police have to escort the kids to and from school. Think the Mexican drug cartels just kill each other? Seriously? How many people have they kidnapped and murdered? More people have died along our border than have died in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. What liberals condone it? What are they doing about it, Don? Not enforcing immigration laws, for one. Making superfluous noise about gun laws that target law abiding citizens and do nothing to curb the criminals who illegally purchase guns. What's Rahm done since he became mayor of Chicago? Cut the police force. What's Barack done? Same thing he does about everything else. Make promises he has no intention of kepping, then bitch that it's someone else's fault. What have Sharpton, Jackson, and the rest of the race hustlers done? Not a goddamn thing. If a black kid gets killed by a non-black, they're wanting everyone who ever spoke to that person thrown in jail or killed. Black on black crime? Black on white crime? ...Dead silence.
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Post by dk on Sept 24, 2013 13:25:11 GMT -5
the gangs mostly kill each other...sure innocent people get killed...and there are plenty of stupid people that just want to kill someone...the mass murders are mostly done by Whitey The Mexicans kill each other in Mexico, mostly...they kill authority,too...
Oh how you love to blame everything on Obama and anyone close to him....don't you think cutting the crap out of the budget might have something yo do with the problem??? Obama has enforced the immigration laws better than any President before him...he has sent more illegals to jail and deportation than any of them....I have never heard Obama say he wants law abiding citizens to lose their guns, get your facts straight...he does want background checks and elimination of automatic rifles with large clips...any thinking man would want the same.....as the polls show.....
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Post by allenreed on Sept 24, 2013 14:27:46 GMT -5
You mean like the one at the DC Navy yard? Sure, innocent people get killed?! Are you serious? Should innocent people get killed? Are we to accept this because it's non whites doing the killing? Why is that? Interesting that what doesn't get cut are the luxury trips for Obama and his family, Lois Lerner gets to retire on our dime when she should be in jail. You think Rahm's going to cut his own salary, even as children die in the streets all around him? Take away all the fraud and corruption and you could have a full police force. But Rahm isn't going to do that. Getting that corruption money is why he took the job in the first place. Obama has chosen not to enforce immigration laws in AZ, and then sued the state when they tried to enforce them. He deports people, but does nothing to stop them from returning. What Obama says about gun control is just his usual nonsenscial blather. Background checks? You think these gangsters are going to submit to a background check? Think they acquire their guns through legal channels? You're just as naive as Obama is. We'll watch as he is taken to the cleaners by Iran. After handing the keys to the Syria situation over to Putin. Too foolish to realize that he's being taken for a fool. Weak, feckless, ineffectual, naive. Clueless when it comes to foreign policy. Still thinks he can negotiate with terrorists. Hopefully someone can step in and save us from him.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 25, 2013 7:06:00 GMT -5
Allen, we elect our officials to represent us , not themselves. As much as you hate negotiating with terrorists, the sentiment in our country is overwhelmingly against another war. One of the reasons I voted for Obama was to avoid another costly war, and based on Republican tough talk before the election, we might be in two of them right now, maybe three. While the Republican side is obsessed with Syria, Benghazi, North Korea, Iran, and Muslims, the Democratic side is obsessed with getting health care to millions of Americans who don't have it. While you hate Obamacare (although it was probably fine when you called it Romneycare in Massachusetts) you should at least appreciate how the President is focused on putting things right in this country, and not other country's problems.
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 25, 2013 9:24:02 GMT -5
Now, back to hitting, the Giants certainly didn't do much of it last night.
On the other hand, losing isn't so bad now. The Giants are in a four-way tie for the #9 overall pick, and just a half game "behind" the Rockies for #8. The Giants aren't yet eliminated from the #5 overall pick.
Buster Posey was a #5 overall pick; Tim Lincecum and Madison Bumgarner were #10's; and Zack Wheeler was a #6.
Since Wheeler at #6 in 2009, the Giants haven't fared very well with lower first round picks, although they are still young enough that the case hasn't gone to the jury yet.
The Giants' pick isn't likely to be below #12, so they will wind up in a favorable drafting position. Anyone know how strong and deep next year's draft is projected to be? Since the eligible players will play another season prior to the draft, the projections now aren't all that important anyway.
But it surely would be nice if the draft were at least 12 players deep next year, wouldn't it?
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