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Post by sharksrog on Aug 28, 2013 18:16:17 GMT -5
I haven't been very complimentary to Hector Sanchez over his Giants career, but there was a play the other night where he REALLY impressed me.
With Buster playing first base, Hector REALLY dug down the first base line to back up a throw. He was about as far down the line as I have seen a catcher be on that play.
That impressed me a lot. Shall we say a lot more than when Gregor Blanco didn't hustle out of the box last night and BARELY made it to third on the play. Once Gregor got going, he did a fine job. But on a bang-bang play at third, he could easily have cost him enough at the beginning of the play to get him thrown out.
I'm still not big on Hector, but on that one play, he made a serious impression on me.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 29, 2013 10:39:14 GMT -5
I believe Belt had a pizza in his back pocket, which explains why Hector raced down there! Seriously though, Hector has played better lately, and he's even being more selective at the plate, which if he continues to do could make him a very good backup or decent trade bait.
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Post by dk on Aug 29, 2013 12:04:17 GMT -5
I believe Belt had a pizza in his back pocket, which explains why Hector raced down there! Seriously though, Hector has played better lately, and he's even being more selective at the plate, which if he continues to do could make him a very good backup or decent trade bait. dk...I just don't understand the lack of respect for Hector...he gives a nice low target, frames pitches and has a strong and accurate arm works really on the same page with the pitchers...and he looks good with the bat for a young kid without much experience.....and Posey has slowed down to a crawl... never remember too many Giants getting thrown out by such a large margin on a routine double play... |
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 29, 2013 12:44:35 GMT -5
dk...I just don't understand the lack of respect for Hector...he gives a nice low target, frames pitches and has a strong and accurate arm works really on the same page with the pitchers...and he looks good with the bat for a young kid without much experience.....and Posey has slowed down to a crawl... never remember too many Giants getting thrown out by such a large margin on a routine double play...
Boagie- I don't know if you're really in a position to question the lack of respect that's given to our catcher when you constantly disrespect last year's MVP. However, minus your ignorant comments on Posey, I agree with you. People who rip on Sanchez don't have a clear idea of how hard it is to find a backup catcher who isnt a liability with either the glove, or more commonly, the bat. Sanchez isn't finely tuned, but he has the tools to be a starting catcher in the near future.
I believe Rog hesitates to give Hector any credit because back in 2011 when I said Hector would make a quick climb to the majors, he disagreed. Much like your constant attacks on Posey, he too would rather just point out the negatives rather than just admit he was wrong in his assessment. Rog finally giving credit to Hector for running to backup a throw at 1st base is a big step for Rog, even though for over a year he's already been proven wrong. But, we have to be happy for even the smallest of breakthroughs.
In Rog's defense, I'm fairly certain if Sanchez won the rookie of the year and MVP he wouldn't still be fixating on negatives. After all, he did say Hector impressed him.
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Post by dk on Aug 29, 2013 16:19:35 GMT -5
dk...I just don't understand the lack of respect for Hector...he gives a nice low target, frames pitches and has a strong and accurate arm works really on the same page with the pitchers...and he looks good with the bat for a young kid without much experience.....and Posey has slowed down to a crawl... never remember too many Giants getting thrown out by such a large margin on a routine double play... Boagie- I don't know if you're really in a position to question the lack of respect that's given to our catcher when you constantly disrespect last year's MVP. However, minus your ignorant comments on Posey, I agree with you. People who rip on Sanchez don't have a clear idea of how hard it is to find a backup catcher who isnt a liability with either the glove, or more commonly, the bat. Sanchez isn't finely tuned, but he has the tools to be a starting catcher in the near future. I believe Rog hesitates to give Hector any credit because back in 2011 when I said Hector would make a quick climb to the majors, he disagreed. Much like your constant attacks on Posey, he too would rather just point out the negatives rather than just admit he was wrong in his assessment. Rog finally giving credit to Hector for running to backup a throw at 1st base is a big step for Rog, even though for over a year he's already been proven wrong. But, we have to be happy for even the smallest of breakthroughs. In Rog's defense, I'm fairly certain if Sanchez won the rookie of the year and MVP he wouldn't still be fixating on negatives. After all, he did say Hector impressed him.[/ dk..it is really funny, when a non-Giant wins an award, you and others cry about East Coast bias and rip the winner to shreds...when I point out the obvious problems with Posey as a catcher...and his long spells of lack of power..how long has it been since he homered...when I compare him to Burriss it is an obvious tweet to Rog who dissed the crap out of Burriss for lack of power, but Posey goes thru long stretches with little results...I still say the obvious, he is a much better hitter when he plays first, and his legs are going awful fast as a catcher...he continues to have trouble throwing and he remains in disagreement too often on what the pitcher should throw....Belt would be much better in the outfield where he can display his speed...which he says is the fstest on the team.... |
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Post by allenreed on Aug 29, 2013 20:09:09 GMT -5
Belt is not the fastest on the team (probably Torres) I would imagine, Andres, Blanco, Pagan, Pence, and probably Peguero are all faster than Brandon, quite possibly Arias as well. Belt does move well for his size though. Very well.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 29, 2013 22:37:10 GMT -5
dk..it is really funny, when a non-Giant wins an award, you and others cry about East Coast bias and rip the winner to shreds...
Boagie- But we're usually realistic about it. Normally when I "cry" about east coast bias I have a reasonable argument.
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Post by dk on Aug 30, 2013 0:12:38 GMT -5
dk..it is really funny, when a non-Giant wins an award, you and others cry about East Coast bias and rip the winner to shreds... Boagie- But we're usually realistic about it. Normally when I "cry" about east coast bias I have a reasonable argument dk..and if you open your ears and watch Giants games on the other team's TV, you will hear some knowledgeable ex-ball players make the same comments about Posey that I do....I think I am just reporting what I see in the guy's catching....and I think he will be a much better player if he doesn't catch anymore.....just think. my favorite all time Giant reported to John McGraw as a 16 year old catcher...and McGraw was smart enough to convert him to the outfield so that his legs wouldn't be "killed" by catching......why do these comments rile you and others??? |
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 30, 2013 9:41:59 GMT -5
DK, you say knowledgeable ex ball players have said bad things about Posey's defense. Please mention even one, so I can look it up. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 30, 2013 11:12:48 GMT -5
Don has long said that announcers think Posey is a terrible catcher. I believe in this case Don hears what he wants to hear. I have had MLB extra innings since Posey came into the league and I've never heard anything from any announcer remotely similar to Don's claims. They may have broken down a play or two where Posey didn't block a pitch in the dirt as good as he should have. And everyone has acknowledged the fact that he has an unorthodox way of blocking because he doesn't use his chest protector like he should. Luckily Posey has great hands and still manages to stop it, which they ALL make a point of saying, which Don ignores. Don also ignores it when they rant and rave about what a professional player Posey was right when he came to the big leagues.
Bob Brenly just this year gushed about Posey for an extended time on air.
McCarver has continuously talked about how amazing it is for a player to learn the position in his final year at college and be an All-Star caliber catcher right off the bat.
The previous Dback announcers (Grace and Sutton) raved about him.
Dick Enberg goes on and on about Posey.
Perhaps the best judge, Johnny Bench, loves Posey, but at the same time Bench made the comment that Posey got injured in the collision because his legs weren't in the correct position. Which is a fairly obvious statement, but Don would read that as Bench saying Posey doesn't position himself correctly, ever. Don hears things this way because for whatever reason Don doesn't like Posey.
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Post by dk on Aug 30, 2013 11:48:00 GMT -5
I like Posey as a position player, not as a catcher.....things that bothered me was the fact he avoids calling many low pitches because he has trouble blocking the ball in the dirt. He has improved some what on ducking inside cutters...not great, but better...tell me you never saw Posey turn his head and go into the fetal position on inside cutters to LH batters...he sets up too far off the outside edge and loses possible calls on the outside "black"..he slows the whole tempo of the game as he and the pitcher have a problem on calling for a pitch...I commented on the body language of the pitchers get pissed because it took so long to agree on a pitch...and the next thing was that Posey went a long stretch without catching Tim and Zito??? I want a catcher who can catch every day/night with anyone pitching...rest him when he gets tired, not by who is pitching..I want a catcher who can block the plate...I want a catcher who's throws don't sail towards RF and puts my infielders in danger....I don't like to hear that my catcher can't catch a certain pitcher because the pitcher is tough to catch....Posey looks OK in short spurts and that is what the experts like, I look at his whole game, and I say what I don't like...the guy is slowing to a walk much too early...he plays and hits better when he plays first...play him there...I have noything against the guy I have never met...but I do see a certain coolness by other players to Posey...
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 31, 2013 10:30:30 GMT -5
There's obviously two Buster Poseys, because the one I watch everyday isn't the same one you're watching. Doesn't call for pitches in the dirt because he can't block them? Not popular with his teammates? Pisses the pitchers off because they can't agree on signs? Risks injuries to teammates with bad throws? Who is that guy?
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Post by allenreed on Aug 31, 2013 11:09:25 GMT -5
The Giants seem to throw more pitches in the dirt than any other team.
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 2, 2013 11:11:51 GMT -5
Boagie -- I believe Rog hesitates to give Hector any credit because back in 2011 when I said Hector would make a quick climb to the majors, he disagreed. Much like your constant attacks on Posey, he too would rather just point out the negatives rather than just admit he was wrong in his assessment. Rog finally giving credit to Hector for running to backup a throw at 1st base is a big step for Rog, even though for over a year he's already been proven wrong. But, we have to be happy for even the smallest of breakthroughs. Rog -- You aren't the only poster here who has the misconception that if something disagrees with me, I fault his logic or hold grudges. You were right about Sanchez's quick rise, and I was wrong. The reason I haven't been big on Sanchez goes right to what Mark mentioned: Last season despite a .280 batting average, Hector was still below .300 in OBP (.295). It is unlikely that a player who makes an out over 70% of the time is going to help his team offensively. Don is right that Hector does some things right behind the plate, but just as he says Buster does hardly anything right, Hector has some flaws too. My favorite thing about him is that he seems to be take-charge, even at his young age and with the Giants' veteran staff. Hector has shown a knack for driving in runs, often very important ones. I expect that to normalize as his career goes on, but I certainly can't deny that whether coincidental or not, he has shown a nice knack. Anyway, Boagie, whether I am right or wrong about a player doesn't truly affect my future judgment. If so, I would merely be compounding my mistake. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1984&page=1#14450#ixzz2dkeNfVxe |
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 2, 2013 11:14:02 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on Sept 2, 2013 11:21:19 GMT -5
Affeldt, when healthy, also throws alot of pitches in the dirt.
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Post by dk on Sept 2, 2013 12:46:04 GMT -5
Boagie -- I believe Rog hesitates to give Hector any credit because back in 2011 when I said Hector would make a quick climb to the majors, he disagreed. Much like your constant attacks on Posey, he too would rather just point out the negatives rather than just admit he was wrong in his assessment. Rog finally giving credit to Hector for running to backup a throw at 1st base is a big step for Rog, even though for over a year he's already been proven wrong. But, we have to be happy for even the smallest of breakthroughs. Rog -- You aren't the only poster here who has the misconception that if something disagrees with me, I fault his logic or hold grudges. You were right about Sanchez's quick rise, and I was wrong. The reason I haven't been big on Sanchez goes right to what Mark mentioned: Last season despite a .280 batting average, Hector was still below .300 in OBP (.295). It is unlikely that a player who makes an out over 70% of the time is going to help his team offensively. Don is right that Hector does some things right behind the plate, but just as he says Buster does hardly anything right, Hector has some flaws too. My favorite thing about him is that he seems to be take-charge, even at his young age and with the Giants' veteran staff. Hector has shown a knack for driving in runs, often very important ones. I expect that to normalize as his career goes on, but I certainly can't deny that whether coincidental or not, he has shown a nice knack. Anyway, Boagie, whether I am right or wrong about a player doesn't truly affect my future judgment. If so, I would merely be compounding my mistake. dk for those who said that Brenly had high praise for Sanchez, he also said that Sanchez should be a major league starter..good catcher, strong arm and clutch hitter....I am more concerned with the RBI's in the clutch than outs that have little meaning...especially for some one hitting in the lower part of the order...walks are not that productive with weak hitters behind him... |
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Post by dk on Sept 2, 2013 12:47:57 GMT -5
Boagie -- I believe Rog hesitates to give Hector any credit because back in 2011 when I said Hector would make a quick climb to the majors, he disagreed. Much like your constant attacks on Posey, he too would rather just point out the negatives rather than just admit he was wrong in his assessment. Rog finally giving credit to Hector for running to backup a throw at 1st base is a big step for Rog, even though for over a year he's already been proven wrong. But, we have to be happy for even the smallest of breakthroughs. Rog -- You aren't the only poster here who has the misconception that if something disagrees with me, I fault his logic or hold grudges. You were right about Sanchez's quick rise, and I was wrong. The reason I haven't been big on Sanchez goes right to what Mark mentioned: Last season despite a .280 batting average, Hector was still below .300 in OBP (.295). It is unlikely that a player who makes an out over 70% of the time is going to help his team offensively. Don is right that Hector does some things right behind the plate, but just as he says Buster does hardly anything right, Hector has some flaws too. My favorite thing about him is that he seems to be take-charge, even at his young age and with the Giants' veteran staff. Hector has shown a knack for driving in runs, often very important ones. I expect that to normalize as his career goes on, but I certainly can't deny that whether coincidental or not, he has shown a nice knack. Anyway, Boagie, whether I am right or wrong about a player doesn't truly affect my future judgment. If so, I would merely be compounding my mistake. dk for those who said that Brenly had high praise for Sanchez, he also said that Sanchez should be a major league starter..good catcher, strong arm and clutch hitter....I am more concerned with the RBI's in the clutch than outs that have little meaning...especially for some one hitting in the lower part of the order...walks are not that productive with weak hitters behind him... dk..oops, I meant Posey in the opening.... |
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Post by dk on Sept 2, 2013 12:58:10 GMT -5
why talk about Sanchez's low OBP last year when he was playing hurt?? His average this year is about .345...good for a 7th place hitter....
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 2, 2013 13:34:56 GMT -5
Don -- I am more concerned with the RBI's in the clutch than outs that have little meaning.. Rog -- Of COURSE an RBI is usually more important than an out. There are about 6 outs made per RBI. But don't say that outs have little meaning. Every time a team makes one, it gives away 4% of its entire game. So your being more concerned with RBI's than outs makes fine sense. Your talking about outs as "meaningless" makes little sense at all. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1984&page=1#14548#ixzz2dlHjILjd |
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 2, 2013 16:08:47 GMT -5
I really like the way Hector has played lately and as mentioned before, I'm not a big fan of his. If he can keep that OBP high like it is now, he can really help the team. He gets an asterisk here though, because he doesn't have a significant amount of at bats, and he's also had the OBP inflated because he's been hit by pitches three times. In a limited amount of plate appearances, that's a factor.
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 2, 2013 17:11:14 GMT -5
Again...He's a backup catcher, and one of the best in the game. Do you expect Joe Mauer to be our backup?
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Post by dk on Sept 2, 2013 17:43:41 GMT -5
Don -- I am more concerned with the RBI's in the clutch than outs that have little meaning.. Rog -- Of COURSE an RBI is usually more important than an out. There are about 6 outs made per RBI. But don't say that outs have little meaning. Every time a team makes one, it gives away 4% of its entire game. So your being more concerned with RBI's than outs makes fine sense. Your talking about outs as "meaningless" makes little sense at all. dk there are outs that have a meaning in a ball game...there are others that are meaningless...no one gets on base all the time, you can fret all you want about how if the good hitters make out at least 60 % of the time...but it is what happens in the clutch with runners on base that usually decides a ball game. |
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 3, 2013 7:43:25 GMT -5
Boagie, I don't think he's one of the best in the game at this point, because he's not good defensively, he's out of shape, and his OBP was terrible last year. After you made your previous argument with me, I checked out some backup catchers and decided you were right and I was wrong and he's better than average, but now you're going too far! However, he's only 23, was rushed to the majors, and if his play since returning from the DL is what we're going to get in the future, perhaps he will become as good as you say.
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Post by dk on Sept 3, 2013 13:26:37 GMT -5
Boagie, I don't think he's one of the best in the game at this point, because he's not good defensively, he's out of shape, and his OBP was terrible last year. After you made your previous argument with me, I checked out some backup catchers and decided you were right and I was wrong and he's better than average, but now you're going too far! However, he's only 23, was rushed to the majors, and if his play since returning from the DL is what we're going to get in the future, perhaps he will become as good as you say dk..I'm looking at the kid, not the stats....I think for his age, he is a very viable candidate to be a starting catcher...and Posey continues to be a better hitter when he plays first...who knows, he may hit some more home runs before the season is up......  |
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Post by dk on Sept 3, 2013 13:29:00 GMT -5
by the way, Posey has improved his throwing the last few steal attempts...
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 3, 2013 16:19:48 GMT -5
Boagie, I don't think he's one of the best in the game at this point
Boagie- Name a few who are significantly better. I've named the last 10 years of Giants backup catchers and we could only find one (Torrelba) who could be considered in the same category. I'm curious, if Sanchez isn't among the best backup catchers, then who is?
There's no question Sanchez's obp in 2012 was lousy, his defense is still a little rough around the edges. I wouldn't say Sanchez is ready to be a starting catcher, however, that's not really when I jumped into this conversation. I jumped in because IMO there are numerous people who I believe have an unrealistic view of what to expect from a backup catcher. I believe Sanchez is among the best and restating the same old statistics isn't proving me wrong. If you want to challenge my statement, post comparisons to other backup catchers with numbers that are better than Sanchez.
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 3, 2013 17:42:01 GMT -5
Boagie -- I believe Sanchez is among the best and restating the same old statistics isn't proving me wrong. Rog -- I know the Giants felt last season that their catching staff was the best in the business. I would agree that Hector is a nice backup. I think that is almost a given. The question would seem to be whether he is ready to start. He might be simply a good backup, or he might wind up moving Buster elsewhere, or he may become very good trade bait for a team looking for a potential starting catcher. He's still young. Didn't come to camp in good shape. Injuries slowed development. Hitting well since coming back from Fresno. Take-charge behind the plate. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1984&page=1#14570#ixzz2ds7rW3Mv |
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