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Post by allenreed on Aug 27, 2013 12:22:32 GMT -5
I've never been good at all the legal mumbo jumbo regarding these things. help me out. Lincecum, Pence, and Lopez were all evidentlylacedon waivers and claimed. What does this mean to the Giants, if anything?
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 27, 2013 13:46:44 GMT -5
Allen -- I've never been good at all the legal mumbo jumbo regarding these things. help me out. Lincecum, Pence, and Lopez were all evidentlylacedon waivers and claimed. What does this mean to the Giants, if anything? Rog -- It's not good news. Teams usually hope that the players they place on revocable waivers clear them, opening up the way for those players to be traded to the highest bidder. If a player IS claimed, there are three possible outcomes -- each of which must happen without 48 hours IIRC: . The player is traded to the claiming team. . The player is given to the claiming team for the waiver price. . The team takes the players off waivers and can no longer trade him (although perhaps they can still trade him to the claiming team; that I'm not sure about). That the three Giants were claimed means that the Giants didn't think they were offered enough to trade them, and they weren't able to receive a sweeter offer from any other team, since those teams weren't the claiming team. All teams are allowed to claim players, but only the one by the lowest-ranked team within the league -- or the other league, if the player goes unclaimed within his own league -- gets to talk to the offering team. In 2010, the Giants claimed Cody Ross from the Marlins in order to block him from the Padres. The Giants weren't really interested in trading for Cody, but the Marlins decided to save Cody's salary, and he was awarded to the Giants for the claiming price. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1982#ixzz2dCE2JzKd
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 27, 2013 13:56:49 GMT -5
Rog, if a player is claimed by a specific team, a trade must be agreed to within 48 hours. The entire thing is 96 hours, two days to put in a claim and two days to make the trade. I guess if you put in the claim quickly you get a little more time. If pulled back they cannot be traded to that team at a later date. Everything else you said is correct. In this specific case the Giants have said these players will not be traded, but this could be a ploy to drive the price up. I think Lopez is the only one they'd even discuss and I'm pretty sure their asking price will be way more than he's worth.
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 27, 2013 14:13:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the correction on the time frame, Mark. I believe if the player is claimed but not traded, the only waivers the Giants could put the player on the rest of the season would be irrevocable waivers, which would essentially be DFA'ing the player.
A thought I had when I saw that all three players had been claimed. That someone would pay the pro-rate of Tim Lincecum's $22 million contract might be construed as indicating that he will received something like $15 million or more in free agency.
There has been talk about the Giants' perhaps signing Tim for 2/$30. That might make sense for each team, as the Giants would take on some risk, but only for two years. Meanwhile, Tim would have a nice guaranteed contract and a chance to build up his value in two years as a still-young 31-year-old free agent.
I can't imagine not signing him to a 3/$33 contract if there were available. The Giants say they will make a qualifying offer to Tim at something like 1/$14, so it would appear they would jump on 3/$33. I'm guessing they might go as high as 3/$45.
I'm not sure that will be enough, but it does appear Tim likes playing here.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 27, 2013 14:30:09 GMT -5
hearing it from Rich Aurilia last night, it is much ado about nothing. He says he was claimed a dozen times or more but never changed teams as a result of a waiver claim. It is mostly used as a way for a team to guage interest among contending teams.
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 27, 2013 14:40:02 GMT -5
Randy -- hearing it from Rich Aurilia last night, it is much ado about nothing. He says he was claimed a dozen times or more but never changed teams as a result of a waiver claim. It is mostly used as a way for a team to guage interest among contending teams. Rog -- Stop and think about it though. Yes, Rich probably WAS claimed on August waivers many times. Almost EVERY player is put through waivers during that month. If the player goes unclaimed, he can then be traded. If he IS claimed, he can be pulled back. So where it MATTERS would be where a team would truly like to trade a player. If the player is claimed, both teams can try to work out a deal. If that doesn't work out, the player can be withdrawn. So Rich is right that the revocable waivers usually don't mean much. Yet a fair amount of reasonably significant deals ARE made after the trade deadline. In those cases, truly the revocable waivers truly DID matter. It's kind of like the difference between a recession and a depression. It depends on whether it affects YOU or not. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1982#ixzz2dCROm35B
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 27, 2013 14:46:51 GMT -5
either way, it comes down to this...those players are going nowhere unless some desperate team is willing to make a ridiculously high offer that can't be refused...and they all might be coming back in the offseason regardless of what happens these next few days.
~Dood
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 27, 2013 15:13:19 GMT -5
Half the Giants players were probably put on waivers, this is just business as usual at this point in the season.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 27, 2013 15:23:08 GMT -5
Well there were a couple of trades today, so you never know. Wouldn't surprise me if Pence was claimed by the Pirates, who had a big need for an outfielder, but acquired Marlon Byrd today. The Giants could actually save eight million dollars just letting the claiming teams have these players for free, so don't say for sure that nothing will happen.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 27, 2013 15:39:18 GMT -5
From all accounts the Giants consider Lincecum, Pence and Lopez as players they have interest in resigning. Players that wouldn't surprise me if the Giants worked out some sort of deal would be Torres or Zito...not that anyone would want them.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 28, 2013 7:20:49 GMT -5
Torres is out for the season after having surgery, so teams won't be trading for him any time soon. Based on last night, you'd have a better chance getting something for Yusmeiro Petit than you would Barry Zito. I would have thought a player like Jose Mijares would have some value, but I haven't heard his name discussed anywhere. If used only against lefties, which Bochy fails to do, he might have some value.
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 28, 2013 11:33:42 GMT -5
Mijares may be on his way out. He's making $1.8 mil and I believe will get arbitration this off season. He could be making closer to $3 mil when its all over. The Giants might choose to dump his salary if they can sign Lopez. Just speculation on my part, but I doubt anyone thinks Mijares is worth that much.
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 28, 2013 14:18:12 GMT -5
Boagie -- Mijares may be on his way out. He's making $1.8 mil and I believe will get arbitration this off season. He could be making closer to $3 mil when its all over. The Giants might choose to dump his salary if they can sign Lopez. Just speculation on my part, but I doubt anyone thinks Mijares is worth that much. Rog -- Jose has been horrible of late. He seems to be an extremely streaky pitcher. Here is something that is intriguing though. Over their careers, Mijares and Lopez have yielded almost identical OPS against both righties and lefties. Lopez has been by far the better of the two this season, but he's also 36 years old compared to Mijares' 28. It could be that the Giants keep Mijares as insurance should they not be able to re-sign Lopez -- and then trade him if they do re-sign Javier. I have been predicting a trade for Jeremy Affeldt, but I've been doing so for years now -- and have been wrong each time. Ideally the Giants would be able to retain all three. But that would be expensive. Probably one of the three will have to go -- and Mijares has been the most disappointing of late. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1982&page=1#14388#ixzz2dID91eNy
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