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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 18, 2013 10:57:48 GMT -5
Before the season began, I stated, and more than once, that LA had purchased the championship and that I was NOT looking forward to the way I KNEW this was going to go; They were going to run off and hide.
I also said I thought it was a done deal.
I was poo-pooed by almost everyone on the board, even more so when they struggled out of the gate, and almost got Mattingly fired.
And now?
LA has won 42 of 50 and that's withOUT everyone healthy!
Even if we HADN'T have had this assinine, ridiculous, inexplicable offensive collapse, we wouldn't even be close.
Before the season began I said that all LA had to do was stay healthy.
When they GOT healthy... not discounting Puig at all, look what happened.
Years ago I was ranting and raving AGAINST the Yankees having bought championships, and my stance is no different now.
It is simply NOT RIGHT that just because a team has more captial to play with, that they can change the face of the game with money.
It's not right.
It's horse crap!
And something has to be done.
I supported the cap in football, and I support a cap in baseball.
Something has to happen to level the playing field.
In all honesty, though I'd LIKE to believe we have a chance to win the division next year, and in the future... I think our chances are SEVERLY curtailed by the money differences between us and LA.
It would appear that they have unlimited capital, which means when Gonzalez and Kemp, and anyone else gets old, or hurt, they simply buy a new one to take his place.
Don't know about the rest of you, but that's depressing.
Thus, my best guess is that we'll be playing for the Wild Card for a while... maybe for a long... long...long...looonnnnggg while.
I used to look so forward to the baseball season each year.
Now?
Now?
Now I'm not sure.
It's just not fun anymore.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Aug 19, 2013 3:41:29 GMT -5
The Giants aren't playing like crap because the Dodgers went out and spent a ton of money, Boly. The Giants would be vying for a playoff spot IF they were playing up to their capabilities. That's what I can't quite figure out this season, they suck, but I'd still like our chances with the same team next season.
The Dodgers got Puig, and he seemed to give them a spark. Obviously Hanley Ramirez got hot and that carried them as well. They all seemed to play better than they did at the beginning of the season. But the moment I think that really brought that team together was the brawl with Arizona on June 11th. Arizona rattled their cage and that whole team finally dropped the bullshit and started playing as a team. That's chemistry. Rog would disagree of course but the fact is they were 28-36 before that and have gone 44-14 since.
Money isn't the issue unless you're a Padres fan. The Giants have money and are spending it on players who had bad seasons. If Cain, Lincecum, Sandoval, Pence and Zito played to their potential we'd be right there with the Dodgers. If Scutaro, Sandoval, Pagan and Vogelsong didn't get injured we'd probably be ahead of them.
If you are worried about the money, have no fear. They have too much invested now to not come back with a busy off-season to make the Dodgers sweat. The Giants will retool and rise again, and they'll wipe that little smirk off Lasorda and Magic Johnson's face. That to me will be worth the wait.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 19, 2013 9:04:12 GMT -5
You guys make points I agree with and disagree with. The Dodgers' big spending ways paid off this year but didn't pay off last year, and historically teams that have spent big have lost. The Yankees success was a long time ago, and for all their spending ways, they've won once in the last thirteen years and probably won't make the playoffs this year. The Blue Jays spent big this offseason and were terrible. The Marlins spent big last offseason and were terrible. The Red Sox spent big a couple of years ago when they went for Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford and came in last place, and then they retooled with home grown players and are in first place! And as a fan of the SF Giants, who have won two of the last three seasons without trying to buy a championship, we should know that the Dodgers have just had one of those years and it probably would have happened regardless of the money they spent. Boagie made great points, except for the chemistry thing, and I agree with Rog here. When you're winning everybody loves each other, and when you're losing, everyone hates each other. There's no such thing as chemistry. We heard they had no chemistry last year, now suddenly the same group of guys do. That's nonsense, in my opinion. Now screw the Dodgers, and let's talk about the team that matters, the Giants, and what they have to do next season. They need three things, and that's assuming they re-sign Lincecum, Pence and Lopez. They need a quality left fielder, they need to improve the bullpen, and they need to improve the rotation. Top of the line FA candidates are Beltran, Choo and Ellsbury. Middle of the road are roiders Nelson Cruz, Mike Morse, and then Granderson, Corey Hart, and Nate McLouth. Even bottom feeders are better than what the Giants have sent out there, but I'm sure the Giants will shoot high here and acquire a quality left fielder by signing or a trade. Now the bullpen. Minor tweakage is all they need. Out go the middle guys, like Machi. Rosario, and maybe Mijares, who I don't like, but they do. Here they will find help at Fresno with Heath Hembree. Jake Dunning is another possible candidate, I still can't figure out why he was sent down so quickly. The bullpen will be Romo, Casilla, Affeldt, Lopez, Hembree, and hopefully a small free agent signing or two, but if not, Dunning and Mijares. The Giants have some live young reliever and starter arms coming, so overpaying for pitchers shouldn't be necessary. Finally, the starters. Cain, Bumgarner and a re-signed Lincecum. The last two are a problem though. Again, so many live arms a couple of years away. That may tempt them to go with Vogelsong and Gaudin again, but that could be a big mistake. I'd like to see one mid level signing here. Volquez? Arroyo? Josh Johnson coming off a terrible year looking to rebuild value?
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 19, 2013 12:39:12 GMT -5
Money guarantees you nothing. The Dodgers havent won anything yet and they have had big money owners before that won nothing. The Pirates don't have a lot of money the last I looked and they have a better record than LA. The A's have very little money AND the worst stadium in the big leagues...they are right in the hunt.
A salary cap would be useless because the large market teams would still outspend the little market teams in terms of scouting and developing. They would be able to buy the best scouts away from smaller teams. They would devote even more resources to the Latin American countries and Asia. They would be able to guarantee larger signing bonuses than the little market teams would to HS players who would prefer to go to college and also to Cuban players who decide to come to America to play ball.
Big money teams will always outspend the poorer teams. That's a fact. A salary cap would likely have denied the Giants the opportunity to win in 2010 and 2012.
~Dood
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 19, 2013 14:15:46 GMT -5
The Giants aren't playing like crap because the Dodgers went out and spent a ton of money, Boly. The Giants would be vying for a playoff spot IF they were playing up to their capabilities. That's what I can't quite figure out this season, they suck, but I'd still like our chances with the same team next season.
If you are worried about the money, have no fear. They have too much invested now to not come back with a busy off-season to make the Dodgers sweat. The Giants will retool and rise again, and they'll wipe that little smirk off Lasorda and Magic Johnson's face. That to me will be worth the wait.
---boly says---
I pray you're right, Boagie... but honestly, I have my doubts.
I hope I didn't imply that the Giants began playing like the people at Danny Elfman's "Deadman's Party," because that's not what I meant.
Early on I pointed out that the season was a done deal IF the Dodgers stayed healthy.
And THAT is exactly the way it's played out.
When most of them got healthy, (including Rameriz), and they added Puig... they took off.
Too many good to outstanding players for anyone in our division to contend with.
And that's what I see in our future, Boagie, I really do; us playing for a wild card spot.
I mean, Crawford, Kemp, Puig... THAT'S an awfully good outfield!
Rameriz and Gonzalez in the infield, and you can afford two "so what's" at 2nd and 3rd.
Now Add Greinke and Nolasco to Kershaw and company... and THAT'S an awfully good starting staff.
I know most don't think a lot of Nolasco, but I think he's a solid, #3 guy.
Again I say, I hope you're right because we DO have some awfully good arms in the minors, albeit most of them are a couple of years away.
boly
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 19, 2013 14:27:40 GMT -5
Now screw the Dodgers, and let's talk about the team that matters, the Giants, and what they have to do next season. They need three things, and that's assuming they re-sign Lincecum, Pence and Lopez.
---boly says---Disagree on Lincecum IF he asks for the moon. If he's reasonable... he's a #3 at best.
I'd LOVE Lopez back, but I'll bet we can't afford him.
Pence is a MUST KEEP.
They need a quality left fielder, they need to improve the bullpen, and they need to improve the rotation.
---boly says---
Absolutely agree.
Top of the line FA candidates are Beltran, Choo and Ellsbury.
---boly says--- I like Choo and Ellsbury, but you can keep Beltran. He doesn't play for me; ever.
Too often injured, and too often gives the appearance that he's only half-assing it; which I BELIEVE effects the other players on the team.
Middle of the road are roiders Nelson Cruz, Mike Morse, and then Granderson, Corey Hart, and Nate McLouth.
--boly says--- I like Morse' power, but not his lack of range. In our park, that's a killer, especially if we're going to be built around pitching and speed. No thanks in AT & T
Hart I thought was on his way down before last year and before his injury. AGain, I'll pass.
Of the group you spoke of, I know little about Cruz, but I'd like to see Granderson in orange and black.
Even bottom feeders are better than what the Giants have sent out there, but I'm sure the Giants will shoot high here and acquire a quality left fielder by signing or a trade.
Now the bullpen. Minor tweakage is all they need. Out go the middle guys, like Machi. Rosario, and maybe Mijares, who I don't like, but they do. Here they will find help at Fresno with Heath Hembree. Jake Dunning is another possible candidate, I still can't figure out why he was sent down so quickly.
---boly says---I'm with you. But I think Dunning was a numbers victum, nothing more.
But the rest? You won't win with the likes of Rosario, Machi, and Moscoso holding down the middle innings.
The bullpen will be Romo, Casilla, Affeldt, Lopez, Hembree, and hopefully a small free agent signing or two, but if not, Dunning and Mijares. The Giants have some live young reliever and starter arms coming, so overpaying for pitchers shouldn't be necessary.
Finally, the starters. Cain, Bumgarner and a re-signed Lincecum. The last two are a problem though. Again, so many live arms a couple of years away. That may tempt them to go with Vogelsong and Gaudin again, but that could be a big mistake. I'd like to see one mid level signing here. Volquez? Arroyo? Josh Johnson coming off a terrible year looking to rebuild value?
---boly says---
I've seen all of Volquez I ever need to see, Mark, and no thanks.
I NEVER believed Gaudin was legit. He had a good run, but he's reverted back to close to what his history said he is.
Josh Johnson I find intriguing. I'm with you; I'd like to give him a shot.
I don't know what to think about Vogey. #5 guy? Depends upon how he finishes the year. This year is a wash for him.
Bochy seems to think that World Baseball crapola was his dearth, and I agree.
he go off on the wrong foot and never found the right one.
But you and I will ALWAYS disagree on the chemistry thing. It IS important.
I've been a part of it, and seen it toooooooooooooooo often to be convinced otherwise.
The Boston and Blue Jay teams you mentioned never had it; why? They played for themselves, not each other.
The old A's teams had it, even though they may have hated each other. ON the field... they played for the team NOT themselves. And that is the difference, and THAT is where chemistry pays off.
NOT liking each other, pulling in the same direction.
Selfish players do NOT do that.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 19, 2013 16:14:49 GMT -5
They need a quality left fielder, they need to improve the bullpen, and they need to improve the rotation. Top of the line FA candidates are Beltran, Choo and Ellsbury. Middle of the road are roiders Nelson Cruz, Mike Morse, and then Granderson, Corey Hart, and Nate McLouth. Even bottom feeders are better than what the Giants have sent out there, but I'm sure the Giants will shoot high here and acquire a quality left fielder by signing or a trade.
Dood - the Giants best chance is to overpay one of the bottom feeders. The top of the line guys wont come near AT&T. Even to trade for one we would have to give up multiple prospects--at least one of them among our top guys--in exchange for a bad contract.
~Dood
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 19, 2013 16:22:00 GMT -5
Giants fans are in no position to cry about the unfairness of the salary disparity in the game. And teams like Oakland and Pittsburgh are showing that big money isnt needed to compete with the big boys if you understand the rules and know how to develop talent.
Bottom line is this...the rules arent going to change anytime soon so better than crying about them, why not just learn to play by them better than the other guys?
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 19, 2013 21:11:01 GMT -5
Boly -- It would appear that they have unlimited capital, which means when Gonzalez and Kemp, and anyone else gets old, or hurt, they simply buy a new one to take his place. Rog -- The Dodgers said over the winter that their long-term strategy was actually to sign and develop their own prospects. And indeed that strategy has paid off nicely as early as this season with the Korean pitcher and Yasiel Puig. They spent the big bucks to quickly catch up for now -- not so much as a long-term strategy (although some of the guys they got are signed for a while). Here is what I'm wondering. Maybe I'm misremembering, but when the Dodgers were struggling last season and early this one, weren't we hearing that guys like Hanley Ramirez were so bad for chemistry that the team wasn't going to win. Early in the season I believe I asked if the Dodgers weren't winning because of their bad chemistry -- or because they had so many players injured. It seems to me that there was a lot of sentiment here for the chemistry. Am I misremembering the high questioning of the chemistry issue -- as opposed to the injury issue? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1964#ixzz2cTGf0UjT
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 19, 2013 21:13:47 GMT -5
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Post by dk on Aug 20, 2013 1:22:48 GMT -5
Boly -- It would appear that they have unlimited capital, which means when Gonzalez and Kemp, and anyone else gets old, or hurt, they simply buy a new one to take his place. Rog -- The Dodgers said over the winter that their long-term strategy was actually to sign and develop their own prospects. And indeed that strategy has paid off nicely as early as this season with the Korean pitcher and Yasiel Puig. dk..these two players are not home grown, the Dodgers outbid the rest of baseball to sign them....in fact, didn't the Dodgers have to pay a load just to talk to the pitcher...
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 20, 2013 9:45:30 GMT -5
The Dodgers claim they've spent all they're going to spend and won't be in the free agent market this off season. We'll see. Also, I was mentioning the names of players they might and might not be interested in without opinion, I wasn't saying I wanted them or not, so sorry about that misunderstanding. As for Linceum, if he asks for the moon he'll find himself without a team. He was doing a nice job of rebuilding his value, but the last two starts have convinced everybody, including myself and the Giants, that Cy Young Timmy ain't never coming back! Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Giants qualifying offer is the best offer he gets.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 20, 2013 9:50:34 GMT -5
As for Linceum, if he asks for the moon he'll find himself without a team. He was doing a nice job of rebuilding his value, but the last two starts have convinced everybody, including myself and the Giants, that Cy Young Timmy ain't never coming back! Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Giants qualifying offer is the best offer he gets.
---boly says---
Mark: I've been saying this for almost 2 years now, and I continue to get poo-pooed.
But honestly, from the history of GM's... I'll be Tim gets more than just "qualifying" offers from at least 2 teams.
Many will still believe the OLD Timmy is still in there.
I don't.
I think what we saw last night will be occurring more and more as the next few years go by.
He never had great command, and command isn't something you learn at age 29. It's something you learned years before.
Or in his case, "didn't" get learned.
Last night is a perfect example of why I don't want him back.
He did GREAT things for us. He did.
But it's like Marichal in his last year or 2 with us; the greatness is gone, never to return.
Time to move on.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Aug 20, 2013 11:11:04 GMT -5
He was doing a nice job of rebuilding his value, but the last two starts have convinced everybody, including myself and the Giants, that Cy Young Timmy ain't never coming back! Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Giants qualifying offer is the best offer he gets.
Dood - I respect your opinion Rx, I really do. I disagree with it but I respect it. But what i don't get is how you can:
A) base it on just two starts; and B) claim to know what the Giants (or anyone else) thinks
Tim is a veteran but is still just 29. We have seen veterans with not nearly his resume make resurgences later in their career than this. Maybe he can't be "CY Timmy" again (but then again maybe he can...look at Bartolo freakin Colon for God's sake) but I believe it's very clear he can still be very good. His stuff is very good and his pedigree is excellent. Time will tell but I dont think any objective observer can claim that it's a sure thing Tim will fail based on all the facts.
~Dood
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 20, 2013 11:41:29 GMT -5
Dood, I think we CAN base it on two starts, and here's why. Timmy has been hurting his free agent value for two years now with his poor pitching. Then suddenly he turns it around, with a no hitter and a one hitter and overall a solid period of about a month. Now teams are taking notice again. Then he turns out two bad games when he reverts to the Timmy of the last two years. That has to set off warning bells to interested teams. If he had pitched the rest of the season like he pitched the last month, he might have convinced other teams that his previous problems were solved, and he could again be a number one starter. Now they know there's a good chance they'll get burned giving him a big contract. Look at the bright side. The Giants won't have as much competition for his services and he won't cost as much. Dood, I've also noticed we've disagreed a lot lately, and we haven't even been talking about politics! Just want to say it's not personal and I admire the way you stick up and fight for your favorite players.
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Post by dk on Aug 20, 2013 11:54:28 GMT -5
Dood, I think we CAN base it on two starts, and here's why. Timmy has been hurting his free agent value for two years now with his poor pitching. Then suddenly he turns it around, with a no hitter and a one hitter and overall a solid period of about a month. Now teams are taking notice again. Then he turns out two bad games when he reverts to the Timmy of the last two years. That has to set off warning bells to interested teams. If he had pitched the rest of the season like he pitched the last month, he might have convinced other teams that his previous problems were solved, and he could again be a number one starter. Now they know there's a good chance they'll get burned giving him a big contract. Look at the bright side. The Giants won't have as much competition for his services and he won't cost as much. dk..The ESPN guys reminded me of what I had noticed before, Tim is scared of the ball being hit back to him. Rog has mentioned that he was hit when in school and there has been several pitchers hit this year...maybe it is time for Tim do some rehab on the mental aspect of being so close to the batter...and he should work with Rags on finishing up his delivery in a position to field the ball...maybe, just maybe, Tim will listen to the Giants' coaches and develop a normal set of mechanics...I think there is enough within Tim to be a good, not great, pitcher...stash his father's mechanics away until his son s hows he is flexible to use it, and then tell mhim to forget it....
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 20, 2013 21:22:42 GMT -5
I have noticed that too, DK, I see him flinch after any ball hit within twenty feet of him. Not sure that affects his pitching though. I think he was hit by a line drive hard a few years ago and I think it still affects him.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 21, 2013 9:46:53 GMT -5
maybe, just maybe, Tim will listen to the Giants' coaches and develop a normal set of mechanics...I think there is enough within Tim to be a good, not great, pitcher...stash his father's mechanics away until his son s hows he is flexible to use it, and then tell mhim to forget it....
---boly says---
Don, this is the drum I've been beating for almost 2 years now.
But I'm betting he won't.
Did you catch Sutcliffe's comment the other night about Lester and how HE fixed his mechanics?
He SHORTENED UP HIS STRIDE to the plate. It had gotten too long.
I believe that's one of the things you and I have been pointing out about Timmy for a while now.
To fix his mechanics THAT HAS TO CHANGE FIRST.
FIRST!!!!
Shortening the stride will:
1-Make it easier for him to get on top of the ball
2-Allow his long arm action to catch up with his body
3-Make maintaining his arm slot and rythem easier
Fixing that one little thing... and it IS one little thing, will go a long, long way towards him being a decent, more consistent pitcher again.
Will he?
I have my doubts.
boly
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Post by dk on Aug 21, 2013 11:34:15 GMT -5
maybe, just maybe, Tim will listen to the Giants' coaches and develop a normal set of mechanics...I think there is enough within Tim to be a good, not great, pitcher...stash his father's mechanics away until his son s hows he is flexible to use it, and then tell mhim to forget it.... ---boly says--- Don, this is the drum I've been beating for almost 2 years now. But I'm betting he won't. Did you catch Sutcliffe's comment the other night about Lester and how HE fixed his mechanics? He SHORTENED UP HIS STRIDE to the plate. It had gotten too long. I believe that's one of the things you and I have been pointing out about Timmy for a while now. To fix his mechanics THAT HAS TO CHANGE FIRST. FIRST!!!! Shortening the stride will: 1-Make it easier for him to get on top of the ball 2-Allow his long arm action to catch up with his body 3-Make maintaining his arm slot and rythem easier Fixing that one little thing... and it IS one little thing, will go a long, long way towards him being a decent, more consistent pitcher again. Will he? I have my doubts. boly dk...the first time Rog put those slow motion tapes on the forum, I said that the guy was driving off the rubber before he even went into his throwing motion...he, in effect, throws on the run....this is really not an easy way to have a repeatable throwing motion.....and the idiots that keep talking about the length of his stride never take into account that he is moving his rear foot as well as his front foot....should we apply for Rag's job,now, or wait until he retires...
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 21, 2013 13:33:16 GMT -5
Rags is not Timmy's pitching coach, his dad is. Maybe you can call social services and try to adopt him!
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:07:59 GMT -5
Boagi -- But the moment I think that really brought that team together was the brawl with Arizona on June 11th. Arizona rattled their cage and that whole team finally dropped the bullshit and started playing as a team. That's chemistry. Rog would disagree of course but the fact is they were 28-36 before that and have gone 44-14 since. Rog -- Please get it right, Boagie. I haven't said that chemistry isn't important; I have merely said I just don't KNOW. But I do know that the timing of your chemisty claim here isn't quite as good as you make it seem -- and it doesn't directly consider the addition of Yasiel Puig and the return to health of Zack Greinke and Hanley Ramirez, as well as Mark Ellis starting to hit after returning from injury. You say June 11th was the key, and indeed the Dodgers beat the Diamondbacks 5-3 that day. But they then lost 6 of their next 8, which doesn't really sound like a team that has truly come together. I we want to look at the day it truly came together for the Dodgers, it was June 22nd. From that day through August 17th, they lost only seven games. The biggest single thing that happened on June 22nd is that Greinke gave up just one run in eight innings, beginning a personal 8-1 streak. I don't know what the impact of the June 11th fight was for the Dodgers, but I do know that it wasn't immediate. You chose a period in which the Dodgers went 44-14. I chose a period during which they went 42-7. I'm not going to say you were wrong about the importance of the June 11th incident. All I'm going to say is that the reaction to it was a bit delayed. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1964&page=1#14016#ixzz2cdCqn5Q9
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:10:32 GMT -5
Randy -- Even to trade for one we would have to give up multiple prospects--at least one of them among our top guys--in exchange for a bad contract. Rog -- How do we know this, Randy? Within one year, the Giants traded for Melky Cabrera, Angel Pagan and Hunter Pence. None of the three was burdened with a bad contract, and the only top prospect the Giants gave up was Tommy Joseph. I'm not saying you're wrong, Randy. I'm merely pointing out that recent history doesn't support your point of view here. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1964&page=1#ixzz2cdGTmQeL
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:14:09 GMT -5
Boagie -- If Cain, Lincecum, Sandoval, Pence and Zito played to their potential we'd be right there with the Dodgers. If Scutaro, Sandoval, Pagan and Vogelsong didn't get injured we'd probably be ahead of them. Rog -- I would say that when most things go right, good teams usually have VERY good seasons. Think of the Giants in 2010 and last season. Most seasons there is both good and bad. When the bad is highly prevalent, a bad season usually ensues. When the good prevails strongly, the season usually follows. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1964&page=1#ixzz2cdHS9NJG
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:23:55 GMT -5
Boly -- I know most don't think a lot of Nolasco, but I think he's a solid, #3 guy. Rog -- And then you go on to say that Tim Lincecum is a #3 AT BEST. I'm going to need to throw a few facts into the issue here. Regarding Nolasco, he's had a very nice season, and has certainly continued it better with the Dodgers than I expected. But let's look at his ERA's the past five seasons, looking backward: 3.60 4.48 4.67 4.51 5.06 Ricky has had only one full season in which he ERA was below 4.00 (3.52 in 2008). Clearly Tim hasn't pitched close to consistenty well the past two seasons, but his 5.18 and 4.53 ERA's aren't much different from Nolasco's ERA's the previous four seasons. IMO, to say that Nolasco is a solid #3 while Tim is AT BEST a #3, isn't fully congruent with the facts. I guess the question with Tim is how consistent can he be? At his best, he has surprisingly been the Tim of old. At his worst, he has pitched about as well as Tiny Tim sang. The money will be different of course, but disregarding money, I would sign Tim over Ricky. Tim would appear to have more upside. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1964&page=1#ixzz2cdIP0MNA
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:26:00 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:28:02 GMT -5
Mark -- I agree with Rog here. When you're winning everybody loves each other, and when you're losing, everyone hates each other. There's no such thing as chemistry. Rog -- Thanks for agreeing with me here, Mark, but to be honest, I just don't KNOW. My best guess is that there IS such a thing as chemistry, but that it tends to be overrated, for the reasons you mention. But I flat-out don't know -- and I've studied team chemistry for 40 years. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1964&page=1#ixzz2cdL28yz1
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:31:03 GMT -5
Rog -- The Dodgers said over the winter that their long-term strategy was actually to sign and develop their own prospects. And indeed that strategy has paid off nicely as early as this season with the Korean pitcher and Yasiel Puig. dk..these two players are not home grown, the Dodgers outbid the rest of baseball to sign them Rog -- I didn't state myself very clearly this time, but when I heard him over the winter, Ned Colletti indeed spoke signing and developing, particularly in the international market. Getting both Puig and the Korean starter pretty much went in that direction. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1964&page=1#ixzz2cdLa4Wpp
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:36:39 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:40:05 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2013 14:42:12 GMT -5
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