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Post by klaiggeb on Jun 18, 2013 10:36:18 GMT -5
1-Abreu- Early on, I stated that I thought Abreu had botched some plays he should have made.
I stand by that, as, once again, he botched a play last night.
Yeah, the ball was scalded... but I've seen even Jeff Kent make that same play.
He's a major league second baseman, and I expect him to play that way.
2-Hembree-In a recent article that AOL posted (best prospects and how they're doing), it was speculated that Hembree has not been called up because:
(1) They don't want to have to put him on the 40 man roster until he proves that when they bring him up, it's for good.
(2) He's a likely piece in a deal and that IF he comes up, and proves he's not ready... it'll lower his value.
Me? No way do I move Hembree.
Why?
I've pointed this out again and again and again; and we saw it again last night.
This is NOT the same Romo from past seasons.
(1) He no longer has the same pin-point command of all of his pitches
(2) He's getting hit when and hit hard more often.
(3) His infamous slider no longer has the break, nor the consistent bite it once did.
He's not a closer this year, but right now, we have no other choice.
Hembree "might" be that guy.
Romo is showing the age and wear and tear on that arm.
3-Susac-Another up and comming, seemingly solid to very good catcher in our system.
If we need to move a good looking piece, this is the guy I try to move.
4-Bochy-As much as Boch has infuriated me, and he has and a LOT, even when he and I disagreed, HE usually turned out to be correct.
But this year, IMHO, he's been outcoached a couple of times and last night, in his own words, had a stupid brain cramp in that double switch.
But I think it goes back earlier to that.
Blanco on first, Abreu at the plate.
I'm thinking, and so were Kruk and Kuip, that Blanco was going to go.
Nope. PItch after pitch after pitch, Blanco stayed put, and for the LIFE OF ME, I can't figure out why!
No one out, slow delivery to the plate, and Abreu was NOT bunting.
I'm screaming at the TV, Blanco/Bochy IF Abreu hits into a DP, this one is on YOU!
Line drive.
DP.
Rally over.
Why have all that speed and not use it?
It makes no sense.
I contended that when it happened, and I still do, that THAT was a pivotal moment in the game.
Why? Because IF he's NOT holding Blanco, Guzman is NOT playing Abreu to pull.
That line drive might go by him, and down the line.
At the very least, it's only 1 out.
Dumb, dumb, dumb!
And it's plays like that, that EXASPERATE me about Bochy.
He's left pitchers in too long, and done all sorts of goofy things that are inexplicable.
5-Perez
Looking more and more like that kid can play! He hung in there well vs RHP last night, and darned near won the game.
But, once again... bad luck bit us in the fanny.
A cannon, and an accurate one in the OF
I know we're going to see Pagan out there when he returns, but as Baggarly said, he's our 4th best CF.
He also said Bochy keeps Pagan out there because of Pagan's "Pride."
Sheesh.
So much for team play, Angel.
6-Crawford
If this kid's NOT the gold glove winner this year, then I don't know who is.
Some of the plays he made, AGAIN last night, had my head spinning. Especially that groundball up the middle, big time wheels running, fast exchange, and bullent throw to nab the runner.
Wow!
7-Mijares
I've been saying for weeks that this guy simply is NOT the pitcher we had last year.
ONce again, RHB are hitting something like .8000 off him!
Velocity, down, command, down.
8-HOw come EVERY (and I mean darned near ALL) other team's relievers come in and paint the black, often, often OFTEN with perfect pitches... but our guys come in... and don't/can't with the same frequency?
It's been this way for over a month now, and I want to know, why?
We're seemingly always behind in the count, and seemingly always laying a fat pitch in there to get hammered.
It's getting old.
And it's no longer fun watching this team play.
And finally, Zito.
Ya'all may be excited by his outting last night, I was not.
He got lucky, and lucky a LOT!
Headley hammered the ball, and it found leather.
A couple, or even one of those finds a hole, and Zito's gone by the 3rd or 4th inning.
Sabean, we have to get healthy, and soon, and YOU have to find a starter or 2, but quick.
boly
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 18, 2013 10:56:26 GMT -5
Boly- Ya'all may be excited by his outting last night, I was not.
He got lucky, and lucky a LOT!
Headley hammered the ball, and it found leather.
A couple, or even one of those finds a hole, and Zito's gone by the 3rd or 4th inning.
Boagie- Every game someone hits a ball hard, even if the pitcher looks good.
Example- Matt Cain's perfect game. The two good plays by Cabrera and Blanco were balls that were hit hard, and far.
Sanchez's no-hitter, Adrian Gonzales' brother hit one to the wall in center.
Whether you want to admit it or not, Zito pitched good. 8 strikeouts in 5 1/3 innings is a solid outing, especially when it's against a team that's playing very well right now. Unfortunately our bullpen came in a blew it, and our bats stayed silent after the 3rd inning.
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 18, 2013 13:59:18 GMT -5
1-Abreu- Early on, I stated that I thought Abreu had botched some plays he should have made. I stand by that, as, once again, he botched a play last night. Yeah, the ball was scalded... but I've seen even Jeff Kent make that same play. He's a major league second baseman, and I expect him to play that way. Rog -- I would have loved to see Abreu glove that ball and get the easy double play. But the ball was hit so hard and skidded to the point that I didn't feel I could reasonably EXPECT him to make the play. I expect guys to give maximum effort and to play smart ball. But I can't reasonably expect them to make every tough play -- and I now they will occasionally botch even the routine ones. These are the greatest players in the world, but guess what? Umpires miss calls, and ballplayers make errors. It's been that way since, what was that day? Oh, Abner Doubleday. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1835#ixzz2WazcqQZx |
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 18, 2013 14:05:56 GMT -5
2-Hembree-In a recent article that AOL posted (best prospects and how they're doing), it was speculated that Hembree has not been called up because: (1) They don't want to have to put him on the 40 man roster until he proves that when they bring him up, it's for good. (2) He's a likely piece in a deal and that IF he comes up, and proves he's not ready... it'll lower his value. Me? No way do I move Hembree. Why? I've pointed this out again and again and again; and we saw it again last night. This is NOT the same Romo from past seasons. Rog -- I don't expect the Giants to move Heath, but wouldn't you be willing to let him go for the right starting pitcher? The bullpen is in disarray, but the eventual return of Santiago Casilla should help. Romo's arm would likely benefit from a double closer situation. Hembree has very nice potential, but he's allowed more than a hit per inning, has a home run rate of 1.5 per nine, and has a WHIP of 1.48. Those numbers are really bad for a reliever. On the positive side, he's struck out more than a batter per frame and has 14 saves. I was surprised that the Giants didn't bring up Heath instead of Jake Dunning, but a closer look at Hembree does indicate he's probably not yet ready. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1835&page=1#ixzz2Wb0VqxYY |
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 18, 2013 14:48:40 GMT -5
Boly -- 3-Susac-Another up and comming, seemingly solid to very good catcher in our system.
If we need to move a good looking piece, this is the guy I try to move.
Rog -- Andrew is a solid to good prospect. When drafted, he was considered solid because of his defense. I have seen some less-positive reports on his defense, but he's having a nice season with the bat at Richmond. He's hitting just .267, but his excellent .378 OBP and fine .460 SLG give him a .838 OPS, which is very nice for a catcher.
His 50/31 K/BB ratio is good for a guy averaging about 1.7 bases per hit in a pitchers' park.
The Giants don't need a lot of catching with the reigning NL MVP behind the dish, so trading a catcher for the second straight season seems like a viable position. I might have liked to see the Giants trade Hector Sanchez this past winter and signed a veteran backup.
A year ago Tommy Joseph ranked ahead of Susac among Giants catcher prospects, and Joseph became the key piece in acquiring Hunter Pence. The last I looked, Joseph had experience injury problems and was hitting just .209 this season. The big attraction in Joseph was that he has tremendous power and had greatly improved his defense behind the plate. His weakness has been contact.
Would Susac bring as much as Joseph did a year ago? Probably not, but he is attractive for a mid-level prospect. I think you're on the right track here, Boly (although I myself would prefer to trade Sanchez, who probably still has more trade value than Susac and just makes too many outs to suit me).
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 18, 2013 15:15:37 GMT -5
Boly -- I'm thinking, and so were Kruk and Kuip, that Blanco was going to go. Nope. PItch after pitch after pitch, Blanco stayed put, and for the LIFE OF ME, I can't figure out why! Rog -- I thought Chase Headley's stealing second base with two outs and 0-2 on the hitter was a smart move. Even if he's thrown out, the hitter starts off the next inning with a fresh count. But as for Gregor's automatically going there? I'm not so sure about that one. Certainly I LIKE the idea of Gregor's going. At second base, he may score on a single, and neither Abreu nor Crawford has the power likely to drive him in with an extra base hit. But I think most base stealers aren't so good when they HAVE to go. I think they do their best work when they are given the "all clear" sign, rather than the "must go." Who knows what kind of read Blanco was getting on the pitcher? Who has been the Giants' most successful base stealer this season? I don't think anyone would have guessed before the season it would be Hunter Pence. But I'm pretty sure Hunter has stolen almost all his perfect 13 stolen bases this season on the "all clear" sign, not on the "must go." Brandon Belt is the next-best Giant on a percentage basis. Do you think he's stealing his bases on the "must go" sign? I think Gregor is probably the Gianst' best base stealer on the "must go" sign, but he's only 7 for 10 on the season. That means he's provided virtually no net value with his steals. What percentage do we think he would be successful on the "must go" sign? Yesterday Erik Byrnes was discussing that Rickey Henderson's 1406 steals was one of the most unassailable records in sports. His point was that pitchers never used to use a slide step and that it's so much HARDER to steal a base now. The pitchers get rid of the ball more quickly, and the catchers do, as well. Another way in which the game has improved. I like being aggressive on the bases. I have pointed out how base runners should probably try to take the extra base more often. As it is, they hardly ever get thrown out. Stealing bases, they get thrown out far more often. I don't think base stealers can steal on demand as they once could. They steal less often, but they do so in a smarter manner. 50 years ago NL base stealers (including Maury Wills, Willie Mays and Willie Davis) were successfull 61% of the time. Now the NL is successful 72% of the time. That has taken the steal from a losing proposition (on average) to a slightly positive one. And that has happened even though pitchers and catchers do a lot better job of preventing the steal. How does that happen? Base runners are stealing more wisely. They're likely not being thrown out on the hit-and-run as often, and they're likely going more on their own as opposed to being forced to go. Be aggressive on the bases, but be aggressive in a smart manner. Otherwise, a positive weapon can be turned into a losing proposition. In theory the idea of Blanco's attempting to steal is a very good one. In practice, perhaps not. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1835&page=1#ixzz2WbDBKY8P |
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 18, 2013 15:42:28 GMT -5
Boly -- 5-Perez
Looking more and more like that kid can play! He hung in there well vs RHP last night, and darned near won the game.
Rog -- I suspect Juan is a 5th outfielder type, but I do love to watch him play. The throw was great, he nearly won the game, and it was a lot of fun watching him beat out that somewhat routine grounder to short. I love guys who go all out.
A small criticism on the ball to Cabrera that he beat out. Everth was caught with his pants down, but Juan did look back at the ball about the time Cabrera fielded it. He should be putting his complete effort and concentration on the corner of the bag he's going to touch and the reaction of the first baseman, which might tip off a bad throw to enable a tag to be avoided.
Perez got to first base in a wonderful 3.8 seconds, so it's hard to fault him. But in a game where an inch can mean the difference between safe and out, it doesn't make sense to look at a ball and possibly lose that inch or more.
If Perez needed to do anything else on the play aside from running as absolutely hard as he could, his coach or the throw would let him know. Anyone know of a good reason he should have watched Cabrera field the ball?
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 18, 2013 15:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 18, 2013 16:01:30 GMT -5
Boly- Ya'all may be excited by his outting last night, I was not. He got lucky, and lucky a LOT! Headley hammered the ball, and it found leather. A couple, or even one of those finds a hole, and Zito's gone by the 3rd or 4th inning. Boagie- Every game someone hits a ball hard, even if the pitcher looks good. Rog -- You guys are both right. Zito HAS been lucky this season, and even in good games, pitchers almost always give up hard-hit balls. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1835&page=1#ixzz2WbUp32oh |
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 19, 2013 8:10:55 GMT -5
Rog- Zito HAS been lucky this season
Boagie- How do you figure? Seems to me when he's not on his game he's getting hammered, and when he is on his game he's getting a lot of swing and misses.
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 19, 2013 9:46:23 GMT -5
Rog- Zito HAS been lucky this season Boagie- How do you figure? Seems to me when he's not on his game he's getting hammered, and when he is on his game he's getting a lot of swing and misses. Rog -- Barry's 4.67 ERA isn't the greatest, but it's WAY better than his 1.60 WHIP. Remember how bad Barry was in 2011 when he was injured and posted a 5.87 ERA? His WHIP was only 1.40 that season. Barry was likely better than his ERA in 2011 and worse that his ERA this season. He has had only one other season in which his WHIP was over 1.40. That was in 2008, when it was also 1.60. His ERA that season was 5.15. The one thing Barry has done well this season is keep the ball in the park. It is highly likely that will change over the course of the season. Barry's home runs on fly balls this season have been 4.4%. That's barely half his career 8.6% mark. Would it be foolish of me to suggest he will regress to his mean? Barry is on pace to allow just 9 home runs. He's been below 20 only three full seasons in his career, and he's never been below 16. Think he'll reach double digits this season? One thing I should mention that would augur against what I'm saying here though is that Barry's Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP) is just 3.64. Home runs allowed is an important component of FIP. Something I just came across regarding Barry's 2012 season. He had a great won-loss record then. It is his only Giants season in which he has received run support in triple digits. He received triple digit run support in each of his full seasons with the A's. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1835&page=1#11781#ixzz2WfkrFu9B |
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Post by Islandboagie on Jun 19, 2013 10:45:03 GMT -5
Rog- Zito HAS been lucky this season
Boagie- How do you figure? Seems to me when he's not on his game he's getting hammered, and when he is on his game he's getting a lot of swing and misses.
Rog -- Barry's 4.67 ERA isn't the greatest, but it's WAY better than his 1.60 WHIP. Remember how bad Barry was in 2011 when he was injured and posted a 5.87 ERA? His WHIP was only 1.40 that season.
Barry was likely better than his ERA in 2011 and worse that his ERA this season. He has had only one other season in which his WHIP was over 1.40. That was in 2008, when it was also 1.60. His ERA that season was 5.15.
Boagie- I agree with all your numbers, but where does this show good luck or bad luck? His blown up WHIP is largely due to him getting hammered in just a few starts, if you take away those games his ERA and WHIP would probably be among the best on the team. Those are just a few games though, the rest of the time Barry has been good. Not that I excuse those bad games, but at the same time he's earned all his wins by pitching good to great, not by the offense picking him up. In fact I'd say in the win loss total he's probably received bad luck, because he's probably had a higher % of losses when he wasn't pitching well, opposed to his wins when he was.
A lot of people (like Boly) are ready to pull the plug on Barry yet again, eventhough Barry has pitched very good in a higher percentage of his starts that anyone else on the team, besides Bumgarner. I think in a lot of cases, people are focusing on those bad starts (because they're really really bad) and ignoring the good starts. I don't care about his losses. If he let 4 runs score or 20 runs score wouldn't make a difference to me. What I focus on are the percentage of good starts to bad starts, and his ability to not only keep his team in the game, but also keep his team in the game if they aren't hitting. Barry has done that as much as you could expect from a bottom of the rotation guy.
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Post by allenreed on Jun 19, 2013 12:25:07 GMT -5
Is Barry the bottom of the rotation guy? We have three #5 starters (Tim, Zito, and Gaudin)?
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 19, 2013 12:28:38 GMT -5
Boagie- I agree with all your numbers, but where does this show good luck or bad luck? His blown up WHIP is largely due to him getting hammered in just a few starts, Rog -- Actually, Boagie, your point is somewhat true of all pitchers, and it certainly is the case with Barry. But Barry's games actually indicate how much luck he HAS had this season. If we take away the four horrible games in which Barry gave up 5 or more earned runs, he comes up with a 2.09 ERA and a 1.28 WHIP. If we take Matt Cain's season as a whole -- not eliminating any games at all, Matt has a 4.55 ERA and a 1.13 WHIP. In this comparision, Barry still has a WHIP that is 0.15 higher than Matt's -- and yet Barry's ERA would less than half Matt's 4.55. If we take Barry out of the Giants' ERA and WHIP, the other Giants pitchers come in with a WHIP that is almost identical to that of Barry sans the four games: 1.29 compared to 1.28 for Barry. Yet the Giants' team ERA sans Barry is 4.07, or nearly two full runs higher than Barry's ERA without the four games. 1.28 ERA and 2.09 ERA for Barry. 1.29 ERA and 4.07 ERA for the other Giants pitchers. See why I say Barry has had a touch of luck? It's been in his GOOD games where his ERA has been lucky. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1835&page=1#11790#ixzz2WgN8y1Ma |
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 19, 2013 12:33:38 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 19, 2013 12:35:01 GMT -5
By the way, I apparently got carried with women's right to vote. Sans his four starts Barry had a WHIP -- not ERA -- of 1.28 and an ERA of just 2.09. The rest of the squad has a WHIP -- not ERA -- of 1.29 and an ERA nearly twice as high at 4.07.
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Post by sharksrog on Jun 19, 2013 12:55:52 GMT -5
Boagie -- Barry has done that as much as you could expect from a bottom of the rotation guy Rog -- I feel kind of bad and probably should have e-mailed Boly, but when I was talking about how few pitchers pitch both well and enough innings to qualify for the ERA title, I wasn't talking specifically about Tim Lincecum -- or Barry Zito, or any other pitcher in particular. My point was simply that it is RELIEVERS who dominate the game, not starters. Because of injuries and ineffectiveness, a pitcher like Zito ranks in about the middle of the 150 starter spots in the major leagues. There isn't agreement on this here, but frankly it's almost certain that pitchers have to either throw a handful of pitches pretty well or they have to face today's batters in short spurts to keep them at all under control. That's part of the reason it's so hard to become and remain a good starter. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1835&page=1#ixzz2WgVpIITd |
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