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Post by rxmeister on Apr 2, 2013 10:22:32 GMT -5
Just our luck that we open against the best pitcher in the game in his ballpark. Matt Cain was equal to the task, but the return of the old impatient Giants offense, enabled Kershaw to go nine innings without breaking a sweat, while Cain had to yield to a bullpen that wasn't up to his high standards on this day. A higher pitch count would have to led to Kershaw being pinch hit for leading off the eighth. Instead he bats and adds insult to injury with a game winning HR. Oh well, just one game, and assuming Kershaw doesn't pitch again tonight (or pinch hit!) I like our chances much better!
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Post by allenreed on Apr 2, 2013 11:41:13 GMT -5
I think the idea was to get to kershaw early in the count, figuring he would throw strikes to get ahead. Not to start second guessing early, but i don'ty think i'd have gone with kontos to start the eighth.
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 2, 2013 11:41:48 GMT -5
Cain looked very good, and Sandoval's elbow seems to feel better, those are the two positives I can take from the first game.
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 2, 2013 12:34:59 GMT -5
I think the idea was to get to kershaw early in the count, figuring he would throw strikes to get ahead. Not to start second guessing early, but i don'ty think i'd have gone with kontos to start the eighth. dk..Bochy won last year by restricting the number of innings a feliever pitched in a game and by matching up with ther batters...he had Affeldt warming up as it looked as if the Giants would get down to Kontos' spot in the order and he had a pinch hitter (Sanchez)on deck when Crawford made the final out of the inning...he then sent Kontos out to pitch his second inning and to face 2 lefthanded hitters....and Affeldt sat down.. Questions...had Kontos pitched 2 innings in any ST game? When was the last time Sanchez came to bat? Wouldn't it be better if he still had Gillespie to use in that spot?? |
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 2, 2013 12:35:39 GMT -5
I think the idea was to get to kershaw early in the count, figuring he would throw strikes to get ahead. Not to start second guessing early, but i don'ty think i'd have gone with kontos to start the eighth. dk..Bochy won last year by restricting the number of innings a feliever pitched in a game and by matching up with ther batters...he had Affeldt warming up as it looked as if the Giants would get down to Kontos' spot in the order and he had a pinch hitter (Sanchez)on deck when Crawford made the final out of the inning...he then sent Kontos out to pitch his second inning and to face 2 lefthanded hitters....and Affeldt sat down.. Questions...had Kontos pitched 2 innings in any ST game? When was the last time Sanchez came to bat? Wouldn't it be better if he still had Gillespie to use in that spot?? |
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Post by rxmeister on Apr 2, 2013 13:51:26 GMT -5
I agree that I'd rather have Gillespie for that spot, but it didn't matter yesterday. Nobody was doing anything with Kershaw.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 2, 2013 20:03:23 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 3, 2013 8:38:22 GMT -5
Allen -- Not to start second guessing early, but i don'ty think i'd have gone with kontos to start the eighth.
Rog -- I suspect it was because the pitcher was leading off. Previously, Kershaw was hitting less than .150 over this career and had only one career extra base hit -- a double.
Boagie- Exactly. I don't think you can blame anyone for a poor decision in this case. Kontos did what any pitcher would have done, start the opposing pitcher off with a fastball down the middle, and Kontos pitched a very easy 7th, so you can't blame Bochy for leaving him in another inning. Kershaw just put a nice swing on it and it happened to catch the sweet spot of the bat.
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Post by allenreed on Apr 3, 2013 11:11:29 GMT -5
I'm not necessarily blaming him for the Kershaw homer. That was just a fluke. But I don't think Kontos had gone over an inning in awhile, and you had a pen full of fresh relievers.
On the other hand, as Mark said, no one was likely to beat Kershaw, just as no one was likely to beat Bummy last night. He was just a great pitcher who was on his game.
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 3, 2013 13:21:57 GMT -5
the onnly way to beat a great pitching performance is to go all out not them beat your pitching ...Cain matched him, Kontos had a good inning, but with Effeldt up throwing, why take a chance with sending Kontos out for a second inning...with 2 lefties coming up, I bring in Effeldt and have a righty-lefty in the pen for the 3rd hitter....the reason I would go all out is because it was against the Dodgers and it was the opening game...next time they face Kershaw, they might think about taling more pitches and running up his pitch count and get rid of him early...much like the Dodgers did to Cain... Ker shaw pitched a great game, but so did Cain
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 3, 2013 15:48:17 GMT -5
Don -- Kontos had a good inning, but with Effeldt up throwing, why take a chance with sending Kontos out for a second inning...with 2 lefties coming up, I bring in Effeldt and have a righty-lefty in the pen for the 3rd hitter... Rog -- I like your strategy, and if he were doing it again, Bochy might indeed go that way. But he could also have burned up his bullpen quite a bit. Let's suppose he had brought in "Effeldt," (assuming, of course that 'e felt good) to face the two lefties. Let's suppose Jeremy retired Kershaw but Crawford singled or walked. Now it's time to bring in a righty, especially since by far the most dangerous hitter of first four batters, Matt Kemp, bats right-handed. If the righty doesn't retire both batters he faces, it's Gonzales and Ethier time, meaning another left-hander. If the lefty isn't effective, that could lead to yet another right-hander when Cruz comes up. Since, as you point out, the bullpen was rested, I would have favored that strategy. But if the game wound up going extra innings, the bullpen could have been rather depleted. Bottom line: I like your suggestion, and I also think I understand why Bochy did what he did. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1628&page=1#10009#ixzz2PQxQUK00 |
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 3, 2013 15:52:50 GMT -5
Don -- next time they face Kershaw, they might think about taling more pitches and running up his pitch count and get rid of him early... Rog -- Again, your suggestion's not a bad one. But Kershaw threw 65 strikes in 94 pitches. Given that he wasted a few, one can see that the hitters may have suffered more than he if they got behind in the count. The guy, after all, is one of the best strikeout pitchers in the game. And if the Giants had taken more pitches, they would have gotten him out of the game after, what, 7 or 8 innings? So the Giants could face a tough reliever or two? The Giants were essentially in a no-win situation. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1628&page=1#ixzz2PR473Vd8 |
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 3, 2013 19:50:33 GMT -5
no different than the Giants would have been....
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 4, 2013 10:43:24 GMT -5
As the title of this thread suggests, Kershaw did ruin opening day, but the Giants ruined the opening series for the Dodgers.
Now, there can't be too much focus on the first series of the season..afterall, the Giants got swept by the Diamondbacks to open last season and they went on the win the World Series. But what are some of the positives and negatives going back home to face the Cardinals?
For me, their bullpen looks versatile. Even though Kontos gave up the homerun to Kershaw, he looked sharp in the 7th of that game and last night getting Kemp to ground into a double play. Gaudin looked really good. Lopez looks to be in mid-season form and Romo has saves in each of the Giants wins. However, Casilla and Mijares seem a bit shakey as of right now.
Matt Cain looked really good, as did Bumgarner. Timmy didn't have control yet again, but at the same time, the lack of control was effective at keeping the Dodgers off balance. His velocity on his fastball was at a decent 93-91 range. While the 7 walks were a problem, I think getting the win, and keeping their offense at bay will build his confidence going into his next start.
The overall performance by their pitching staff thus far has been very good, and the depth of their bullpen seems to easily hide the fact that someone might not be on their game that night. Mijares last night for example was getting hit around, but the bullpen still got the job done as a whole. Not many teams can have their lefty come in and get knocked around and still win the game.
Their hitting has been putrid. Besides maybe a select few, they have looked terrible. FAR too many double plays and strikeouts. In 3 games now they've hit into 7 double plays, struck out 19 times and walked only twice. Their collective on base percentage is .224, unacceptable. I can't really single too many guys out because they've almost all looked bad, but Scutaro and Belt seem the most lost right now.
Those are my observations, anything I miss?
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 4, 2013 11:16:21 GMT -5
Boagie -- Gaudin looked really good.
Rog -- One of our posters said that Scott Proctor was clearly a better pitcher than Gaudin, but I thought Chad was quite impressive in a fairly high-leverage situation last night. Spring training means more for guys who are trying to make a team, and Chad pitched well there too.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 4, 2013 11:27:25 GMT -5
Boagie -- His velocity on his fastball was at a decent 93-91 range. While the 7 walks were a problem, I think getting the win, and keeping their offense at bay will build his confidence going into his next start. Rog -- I can't see how the outing could help his confidence. When he is pitching well, not only does he usually walk a LOT fewer than his career high-tying 7 last night, but he gets his outs on ground balls, not deep flies. He came dangerously close to not qualifying for the win. No counting Josh Beckett's sacrifice, Tim had 8 fly outs compared to just 2 ground outs. Just over half (46) of his 91 pitchers were strikes. You know how much I live Tim, but I just can't get excited about last night's effort, even though he gave up nary an earned run. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1628&page=1#ixzz2PVoBOhjo |
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 4, 2013 11:28:58 GMT -5
Boagie -- Their hitting has been putrid. Besides maybe a select few, they have looked terrible. FAR too many double plays and strikeouts. In 3 games now they've hit into 7 double plays, struck out 19 times and walked only twice. Their collective on base percentage is .224, unacceptable. I can't really single too many guys out because they've almost all looked bad, but Scutaro and Belt seem the most lost right now. Rog -- What you say here is right on (plus Brandon Crawford has also had a hard time), but it seems way to early to worry. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1628&page=1#ixzz2PVqz3ZT4 |
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Post by allenreed on Apr 4, 2013 11:41:01 GMT -5
Alot of the DPs are hard hit balls that have gone right at fielders, probably more a function of bad luck than bad hitting. Pence is the one that bothers me. Way too pull happy. When he went to right he homered.
Lincecum? Nothing good there. Seven walks in five innings is Little League stuff. He looks like he's afraid to challenge hitters, even those he had owned in the past, and weren't going well now, like Kemp and Gonzalez.
Excellent outing by Gaudin.
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Post by allenreed on Apr 4, 2013 11:43:45 GMT -5
I can't really single too many guys out because they've almost all looked bad, but Scutaro and Belt seem the most lost right now.
Those are my observations, anything I miss?
Allen- One big one. Belt is suffering from a stomach virus. He's been too sick to play the last two games, and was sick for the opener against Kershaw. I wouldn't look for Scutaro to repeat last year's performance.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 4, 2013 12:55:36 GMT -5
Allen -- He looks like he's afraid to challenge hitters, even those he had owned in the past Rog -- It mostly seemed to me that he couldn't put the ball where he wanted to. They say the key to pitching is strike one. I'm not sure it's true of anyone more than Tim, as I'll explain later. Last night Tim three 14 balls and 12 strikes on his first pitches to each batter. That's not nearly good enough. Perhaps the biggest difference in Tim now compared to the successful part of his career is that he can no longer pitch at all effectively from behind in the count. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1628&page=1#10050#ixzz2PW7vB63u |
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 4, 2013 13:14:12 GMT -5
Lincecum? Nothing good there. Seven walks in five innings is Little League stuff. He looks like he's afraid to challenge hitters, even those he had owned in the past, and weren't going well now, like Kemp and Gonzalez.
Boagie- His velocity was 91-93, that's something good. And while the walks weren't good, the Dodgers also weren't able to square up barely any of his pitches, which might give him the confidence to challenge hitters more next time.
Lets analyze it a little more...
The first inning he gave up a run, but let's look how that run scored. Crawford hit a weak bloop that fell into left field. Then Tim Walked Schumaker, got Kemp to fly out to center, then walked Gonzalez, Sanchez had a passed ball to let Crawford score. Eithier then popped up and Tim struck out Cruz to end the inning. The control was the issue, nobody squared up a ball. I excuse a walk to Gonzalez if people are in scoring position, so the only issue I had with Tim that inning was walking Schumaker.
The second inning was perhaps his worst inning. He let Ellis and Crawford sqare up balls for a double and a single and he walked Beckett. But he got Uribe and Kemp to fly out, and struck out Schumaker. No runs scored, but this seemed to be his most troublesome inning.
The third inning he did good, he put down Gonzalez, Either and Cruz 1-2-3, striking out Either.
4th inning he walked two, not good, but he led off the inning by striking out Uribe, then walked Ellis, Beckett then sacrificed, then I think they felt more comfortable pitching to Schumaker so they didn't give Crawford anything to hit, he walked and then Tim struck out Schumaker to end the inning. IMO, walking Ellis was the mistake. walking Crawford was smart because Crawford was already 2-2 against Tim and he struck out Schumaker his last at-bat.
5th inning, Matt Kemp leads off with a walk (walking Matt Kemp is acceptable.) Then Posey makes an error, which lets Gonzalez reach first. Eithier flies out moving Kemp to 3rd. Cruz flies out scoring Kemp. Without the Posey error the inning is over and Kemp is stranded at first, but there's still one out left, a run has scored and Uribe is up. Tim walks Uribe which he shouldn't have, then Ellis flies out finally ending the inning. Thus ending Timmy's night due to pitch count.
Timmy battled, no question, and the walks did lead to some rallies, but he did a good job at preventing those rallies from turning into a big inning. 7 is way too many walks either way, but you have to figure 3 of those walks were acceptable, 2 of them came with runners in scoring position with an open base, the other one was to Matt Kemp. That means there were 4 walks that had no excuse, that is also too many, but not as alarming.
I knew Tim wasn't going to pitch a perfect game, he's got a lot of things to figure out before he's right again. But for me, I was happy with his velocity, and the fact he didn't let anyone get the big hit. Now he's just got to work on the control.
Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I think it's a start or two away now.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 4, 2013 13:18:40 GMT -5
To illustrate the importatce of Tim Lincecum's throwing a first-pitch strike, last season he gave up .228/.293/.380/.673 when doing so as opposed to .298/.425/.493/.921 when his first pitch was a ball.
In other words, Tim was a very good pitcher when his first pitch was a strike, and a horrible one when it wasn't.
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 4, 2013 16:46:09 GMT -5
interesting stat, Rog. there's certainly a drastic difference there. Perhaps that explains why Lincecum is often going to his curveball on the first pitch, perhaps he has more confidence in throwing that for a strike. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 4, 2013 17:03:48 GMT -5
Boagie -- interesting stat, Rog. there's certainly a drastic difference there. Perhaps that explains why Lincecum is often going to his curveball on the first pitch, perhaps he has more confidence in throwing that for a strike. Thanks for sharing. Rog -- Tim has done a pretty good job of mixing up his pitches so that he's not predictable to a count. With two strikes I would be looking for the change up, and until there was a first strike, I would look for the fastball. But last night Tim threw a fair number of curves and change ups on his first pitches. Didn't seem to me he threw many sliders. Nor a high percentage of fastballs compared to most pitchers. A ton of changes, although some of what I viewed as change ups could have been sliders. Tim has changed his pitching patterns, which should be a favorable development. But he's got to fet more of those pitches over the plate, and the ones he does get over, put in better places. Seemed like he was keeping the ball down better than he had recently, but eight fly outs among 14 non-sacrifice outs is a LOT of fly outs. I would venture that more often flies make up closer to 30% of his outs -- or about half as much as last night. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1628&page=1#10057#ixzz2PXBlWrZw |
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