|
Post by Islandboagie on Apr 2, 2013 17:04:36 GMT -5
Rog -- You were the one who said some journalism student who knew nothing about sports was hired for sports. I had never heard of such a situation.
Allen- I really can't remember saying that.
Rog -- I picked that up somewhere, perhaps from another poster. I'm glad it wasn't you who posted it.
Criticizing those in a highly-competitive profession as being incompetent is usually fruitless. It's something like saying a particular major league baseball player is incompetent. Compared to other major leaguers, some certainly look that way. But compared to all in the profession -- and particurly all those who aspired to be or think they could be -- those guys are excellent.
Boagie- It was me who said it, and I wasn't criticizing anyone, I was merely pointing out an example of someone who wasn't totally into sports but saw a opening in journalism and took it. I believe this happens from time to time. I'm sure there are a fair amount of sports journalists who don't really care about hockey, but are required to write on it during hockey season. Or Golf, or badminton, or swimming. Journalists are into journalism, they enjoy writing, they don't necessarily enjoy college tennis. But someone has to do it.
I would figure most journalists aspire to write for the New York Times, or Newsweek, or something of that nature, not on girls high school volleyball. But, just like most of us, you look for a break into the desired profession anyway you can, even if it's something you don't know about, or necessarily want to do.
I'm sure most of them know about some form of sports going into it, and I'm sure there are some that stick with it and do in fact become quite knowledgeable in certain areas. But at the same time, I'm fairly certain some get into it, do it for a year or two and then move on.
|
|
|
Post by sharksrog on Apr 2, 2013 19:13:45 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by sharksrog on Apr 2, 2013 19:24:42 GMT -5
Boagie -- I'm sure there are a fair amount of sports journalists who don't really care about hockey, but are required to write on it during hockey season. Rog -- I certainly haven't seen it with the Sharks. They have a lot of very passionate writers, and telecaster Brodie Brazil actually played in the Sharks Fantasy Camp last week. I myself wasn't a fan of high school football, but I covered high football games for about 10 years and enjoyed the heck out of it. I did know a little about football, of course, but not high school football. You are no doubt right in some instances, but I think those are clearly the exceptions, not the rule. At one time I was going to go into sportswriting. As a high school student I attended a very prestigious six week journalism institute at Northwestern University -- the top journalism school in the country -- on a scholarship. You know what most contributed to my not pursuing it? As a senior in high school, I attended an event at the SF Press Club in which I was highly impressed with Art Spander. I didn't see how I could be better than he was, and he was only writing golf at what seemed to me to be the old age of 30. Art went on to become a columnist and one of the top golf and tennis writers around. Who WOULDN'T want to become a sports writer? The competition is indeed tough, and I probably wouldn't have done that well, even if I had been lucky enough to get a job writing sports. With all that competition to get in and then all the cuts in the industry, there can't be many who survived who were lousy. Read guys like Andrew Baggarly, Alex Pavlovich (almost a kid, but already a good writer), John Shea and Hank Schulman. They're pretty darn good. So was Jeff Fletcher, but he didn't make the industry cut. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1622&page=2#ixzz2PM3JdcJd
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Apr 3, 2013 9:23:28 GMT -5
I'm not talking about the major columnists, or on-air sports analysts who have a bookshelf full of Emmy awards, Rog. Obviously Brodie Brazil knows a little something about Hockey.
Baggerly knows a fair share about the Giants, but he's their beat writer, he's going to know all the inside stuff. But I do recall a quote from Baggerly saying that he really didn't have a clue when he started as the Giants beat writer, but has learned a lot.
I'm talking about the writer who might get their start writing about the high school and college sports. Everyone get's their start somewhere, and sometimes they don't have a deep understanding of what they're writing about in the begining. At some point, those writers might get a promotion to a position where they're writing about a professional sport, do they instantly become smarter than everyone else on the topic just because they have a degree in journalism?
Take your experience of being a baseball fan, Rog. Do you think you have a better understanding of the game now, or right after you became a fan?
I've been a fan since '86, that's almost 27 years. I think it's safe to say that MOST of the sports writers in the paper probably haven't followed the sport they're writing about for nearly that long. Some have learned a lot, some are still learning.
|
|
|
Post by allenreed on Apr 3, 2013 11:07:43 GMT -5
For once Don, I agree with you. One need look no farther than 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., where we have a man who was elected not once, but twice by a hopelessly uninformed electorate, simply because he promised them free stuff. In hopelessly over his head, and too arrogant to take the advice of smarter people around him, he's well on his way to dismantling and leaving for dead the greatest country in the history of the world.
|
|
donk
New Member
Posts: 23
|
Post by donk on Apr 3, 2013 11:26:12 GMT -5
there Allen goes again, mixing politics with baseball and repeating the right wing nuts calculated lies....do you jump up and down when echoing the obese druggies words?
|
|
|
Post by allenreed on Apr 3, 2013 11:35:58 GMT -5
And now back to the usual drivel. I guess you think if you repeat something often enough, it will be true, or (like your idols in DC) you can make ignorant people think it is.
|
|
donk
New Member
Posts: 23
|
Post by donk on Apr 3, 2013 12:59:03 GMT -5
And now back to the usual drivel. I guess you think if you repeat something often enough, it will be true, or (like your idols in DC) you can make ignorant people think it is. dk..well, it sure doesn't stop you from trying...the ignorant people buy your crap, the smart people voted to keep Obama in office...are we destined to listen to your crap forever?
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Apr 3, 2013 13:29:02 GMT -5
C'mon guys, the season JUST started, isn't there something else you'd like to talk about?
Afterall, neither of you have much leverage, both parties are a train wreck right now.
Allen, our party just lost to the worst President in the history of this country and their best option to face off against Obama was a liberal democrat, whom you voted for. Now they've decided to get into a media pissing match with the only guy who could perhaps make a stand for the Republicans in 2016. Queen Hillary Clinton will likely be the next president. The Liberals are laughing at us.
Don, your beloved President's obamacare has now overwhelmingly been credited by (non-pocketed Obama lackies) with the struggles of companies being able to create jobs, and job creation was his main priority since taking office. His Presidency has been a joke, It would be funnier to those with some sense if he hasn't turned Reagan's shining city on a hill into a smoldering pile of shit.
Shall we just admit that both sides are a mess, and concentrate on baseball...at least until the next election? Pretty please?
|
|
|
Post by sharksrog on Apr 3, 2013 16:15:14 GMT -5
Boagie -- Baggerly knows a fair share about the Giants, but he's their beat writer, he's going to know all the inside stuff. But I do recall a quote from Baggerly saying that he really didn't have a clue when he started as the Giants beat writer, but has learned a lot. Rog -- Andy knew baseball; he just didn't know the Giants. And he learned so fast that as long as I can remember, I have considered him the best Giants beat writer (and the others are very good, as well). That Andy learned the Giants so quickly shows that he's probably pretty good. A good sports writer can learn a LOT about any team in a short period of time. All they have to do is research the team and then take advantage of the inside information they receive. Almost any sports writer can change his team or even his sport without much workup time. Almost without exception, these guys are just flat-out sports fans -- not just the sport they cover. Boagie -- I'm talking about the writer who might get their start writing about the high school and college sports. Everyone get's their start somewhere, and sometimes they don't have a deep understanding of what they're writing about in the begining. At some point, those writers might get a promotion to a position where they're writing about a professional sport, do they instantly become smarter than everyone else on the topic just because they have a degree in journalism? Rog -- No, although the degree does help them to research and interview. It's not that tough getting a good knowledge about a team. I'm not even a sports writer anymore, but give me the job of writing, say, the Cardinals, and in two weeks I could be pretty well informed -- especially if those two weeks came during spring training. These guys are pretty good, Boagie. Take a competitive field and cut out 2/3rds of the guys who work in it. What's left is going to be pretty good, isn't it? Boagie -- Take your experience of being a baseball fan, Rog. Do you think you have a better understanding of the game now, or right after you became a fan? Rog -- Now, of course. But that doesn't mean I didn't have a pretty good understanding of it even as a kid. The primary things I have learned about the game as an adult have come from analytics. Baseball is a kid's game, for goodness sakes. Boagie -- I've been a fan since '86, that's almost 27 years. I think it's safe to say that MOST of the sports writers in the paper probably haven't followed the sport they're writing about for nearly that long. Rog -- I would say that most have done so. If a writer is 35 years old, he likely has followed baseball for 27 years or more. Boagie -- Some have learned a lot, some are still learning. Rog -- The best writers are usually those who fit both categories. With the exception of inside information (which is a large part of the equation), I -- or you -- may know as much about the Giants as the writers who cover them. But they probably know more about the other teams, and the value of inside information shouldn't be underestimated. In the summer of 2009, Steve Corkran -- they guy who covers the Raiders -- wrote a very nice feature article about the San Jose Giants. With the exception of mistakenly getting the idea that Conor Gillaspie was a good fielder, the article was quite good. And he's a guy from a different sport writing about a minor league baseball team. I'll bet the inside information available to him was considerable. When comparing ourselves to those in the media, I think we over-estimate ourselves. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1622&page=2#10010#ixzz2PR5ctk1S
|
|
|
Post by allenreed on Apr 3, 2013 16:26:52 GMT -5
dk..well, it sure doesn't stop you from trying...the ignorant people buy your crap, the smart people voted to keep Obama in office...are we destined to listen to your crap forever
Allen- A) The communication is not verbal, so you're not listening, you're reading, and you have a choice as to whether read it or not. If, like most libs, you prefer to remain ignorant, don't read it.
B) I know I've asked you this before and you've refused to answer, but how was it smart to vote for Obama once, let alone twice? What has he done that is good for the country, good for working Americans?
C) It may appear that Barack is developing a conscience, choosing to give back 5% of his salary. The obvious question is: Just 5%?
D) It appears the Obama administration picked another winner in Fisker, who is preparing to file for bankruptcy protection. Oh well another $529 million taxpayer dollars down the drain.
|
|
|
Post by allenreed on Apr 3, 2013 16:29:31 GMT -5
Allen, our party just lost to the worst President in the history of this country and their best option to face off against Obama was a liberal democrat,
Allen- I'm a Democrat, Boagie. I just don't fall into lockstep with the liberal orthodoxy and their dogma.
|
|
|
Post by allenreed on Apr 6, 2013 10:45:05 GMT -5
In the summer of 2009, Steve Corkran -- they guy who covers the Raiders -- wrote a very nice feature article about the San Jose Giants. With the exception of mistakenly getting the idea that Conor Gillaspie was a good fielder, the article was quite good.
And he's a guy from a different sport writing about a minor league baseball team. I'll bet the inside information available to him was considerable.
Allen- You read the article, I didn't. What did you glean from it that you would have considered "inside information"? These guys aren't going to print much that the team doesn't want them to print. Otherwise, they lose access. It's just like if a member of the press prints something bad about King Barack. No more interviews, no more access.
|
|
|
Post by sharksrog on Apr 6, 2013 15:11:27 GMT -5
Allen- You read the article, I didn't. What did you glean from it that you would have considered "inside information"? These guys aren't going to print much that the team doesn't want them to print. Otherwise, they lose access. Rog -- I didn't get anything out of the article that I would have considered to be inside information. Since Steve normally covers the Raiders, I wouldn't expect any. As I pointed out, with the exception of Conor Gillaspie's defense, the article was a good presentation of a San Jose Giants team with a ton of major league potential. Players on that team included Angel Villalone, Nick Noonan, Gillaspie, Thomas Neal, Roger Kieschnick and Darren Ford (I think.) The team was so loaded with hitters, that Neal -- who has had a cup of coffee in the majors with the Indians -- batted 9th in the season opener. As for Corkran, IIRC he had some nice quotes (which would have been as close to inside information as he received -- or at least that he printed). But I don't think he was too worried about anything he wrote taking away from his future access. I don't think the Raiders gave a darn. The point in part was that Corkran is a SPORTS fan, not just a football or Raiders fan. He was willing to take his son to San Jose later in the season. You yourself are both a Giants fan and a Raiders fan. How often have you taken your son or daughter down to San Jose? I'm no longer living in the Bay Area, but I'm hoping to take in both San Jose and Fresno in road games this summer. The minor league games are a kick. You can get very good seats for cheap, and the atmosphere is of an even more fun nature than in major league games. San Jose doesn't get much coverage even in the San Jose Mercury News, so I don't know how much inside information there is beyond their radio and TV guy, but if a Giants beat writer were to attend and write an article, I suspect that guy could get a little (sorry to put it that way). The guys who write the Giants are pretty much as excited about the Giants as we are, they are privy to inside information, and they're better writers than we. I have mentioned this before, but if you want to see just a SUPERB TV guy, check out Brodie Brazil and his coverage of Sharks games in San Jose. And the first time I ever saw Brodie, he was walking from clubhouse to clubhouse with Freddy Sanchez immediately after the trade. One of the best interviews I have ever seen. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1622&page=2#10073#ixzz2PiOdG1wA
|
|
|
Post by allenreed on Apr 6, 2013 20:48:01 GMT -5
I've seen brazil here and there, he didn't really make a dent in my consciousness either way. Larry Krueger does a good impression of him.
Here's some grist for the mill. Bill Laskey and Vida Blue. They seem pretty bland to me, and Laskey often gets his facts wrong. Anyone else's thoughts? Frankly, I think the Giants could do better. I've been a big fan of Vida going way back to 71, but I don't think this is his niche.
|
|
|
Post by allenreed on Apr 7, 2013 10:08:01 GMT -5
While we're on media, when did this super-annoying habit of conducting interviews during the game start? You're trying to follow the game, and they keep cutting to some player in the dugout wearing headphones and saying absolutely nothing of importance, simply mouthing oft-repeated cliches. Then a teammate will come by and throw something at him. Meanwhile, important things are happening on the field that are neither seen nor commented on. Absolutely ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by sharksrog on Apr 7, 2013 11:55:37 GMT -5
Allen -- I've seen brazil here and there, he didn't really make a dent in my consciousness either way. Rog -- You may not have seen him in the right settings. I don't think I've ever seen a better sports interviewer for short snippets. Allen -- Larry Krueger does a good impression of him. Rog -- I don't follow Larry all that closely, but he's WAY different from Brodie. Gary Radnnich did a nice funny with Larry when they were talking about Felipe Alou's impact, and Gary said something to the effect that Felipe had a big influence in Larry. Allen -- Here's some grist for the mill. Bill Laskey and Vida Blue. They seem pretty bland to me, and Laskey often gets his facts wrong. Anyone else's thoughts? Rog -- I don't care for them, but I'm not a big pre-game and post-game guy anyway. The Big 4 are good after a game, and Marty Lurie's show is worth a listen IMO, but I'm not big on Laskey or Blue. I solve any problem there may be by not watching them. It's an easy solution. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1622&page=2#10078#ixzz2PnUI6eHC
|
|
|
Post by sharksrog on Apr 7, 2013 11:58:41 GMT -5
About the interviews, I don't like them either, but clearly someone does, or they would do away with them.
For the most part, I haven't been a fan of player interviews, since I rarely learn anything from them. The interview of Hunter Pence a week ago was a marvelous exception, but for the most part I like to hear the writers interviewed, since one almost always learns a lot more from them than the players, or even the managers or GM's.
|
|
|
Post by allenreed on Apr 7, 2013 13:39:44 GMT -5
Allen -- Larry Krueger does a good impression of him.
Rog -- I don't follow Larry all that closely, but he's WAY different from Brodie.
Allen- I don't mean he's like Brodie. He actually does an impression of him, as say Jon Miller does with Vin Scully.
|
|
|
Post by Islandboagie on Apr 7, 2013 19:52:30 GMT -5
While we're on media, when did this super-annoying habit of conducting interviews during the game start? You're trying to follow the game, and they keep cutting to some player in the dugout wearing headphones and saying absolutely nothing of importance, simply mouthing oft-repeated cliches. Then a teammate will come by and throw something at him. Meanwhile, important things are happening on the field that are neither seen nor commented on. Absolutely ridiculous.
Boagie- it's better than Kruk and Kuip doing the commentary on two kids fighting over cotton candy.
|
|
|
Post by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2013 2:16:39 GMT -5
He's a Dodger, and we're still talking really small sample, but Yasiel Puig has followed up his .526 spring training with .500 in AA, including a homer, two walks and a steal.
Nothing too spectacular with the Giants' farmhands today, although I notice Joe Panik (two hits today after only one in his first 12 at bats) is batting third for Richmond.
Again, I'd trade both Panik and Gary Brown for Puig. I'd be willing to throw in more, too.
While I haven't yet formed an opinion of him, San Jose outfielder/DH Mac Williamson -- 2012's 3rd round pick out of Wake Forest and standing 6-foot-5, 240 -- is now 6 for 17 with a double, triple and two homers.
He too could go if I could get Puig.
|
|