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Post by sharksrog on Apr 7, 2013 12:13:46 GMT -5
The Giants' starters -- no earned runs in their first two games -- aren't the only ones. San Jose's first three starters (Kyle Crick, Clayton Blackburn and Edwin Escobar) have yet to allow an earned run either.
Slow start for Gary Brown (3 for 13 at Fresno, but with a triple and three strikeouts) and a very slow start for Joe Panik (1 for 12 with one strikeout).
At Fresno, Roger Kieschnick (5 for 13 with 2 doubles, a homer and 4 strikeouts), Francisco Peguero (4 for 13 with 5 RBI's and 3 strikeouts), Kensuke Tanaka (4 for 13 with 4 strikeouts) and Cole Gillespie (2 for 9 with 2 walks and 2 strikeouts).
Ramon Ramirez (2 innings, 1 run), Heath Hembree (1 scoreless inning) and Dan Runzler (2/3rds of a scoreless inning).
For those who want to watch a little baseball, the San Jose Giants' rotation could be a big part of the Giants' future. Check out the Little Giants' schedule.
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 7, 2013 13:14:42 GMT -5
the giants should have listened to me last year but they finally moved Panik to second and moved Jurica back to short....and Jurica is at Fresno and Panik is in Richmond....does that move Jurica ahead of Panik as a prospect?
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2013 0:37:49 GMT -5
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 8, 2013 12:02:28 GMT -5
Jurica is meat because Rog says he is ......I never saw him play and it intrigues me that he was drafted fairly high and has put up some good numbers but he is never rated very high despite advancing to AAA.. and what bothers me is that the Giants have said right from the day they drafted Panik that they would switch him to second base and since Jurica was drafted as a shortstop, why did they kill one year in developing Panih at second...they should have switched them last year...it also seems strange that Adrianza, considered to be a good fielding SS and who showed signs of hitting in the end of last season was kept another year in AA and Jurica was skipped over AA into Fresno.....but we can't say anything because the Giants have finally won after all those years and all the guys that were looking for managements skin over the losing years are now putting them above reproach,,,,
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2013 12:54:19 GMT -5
Don -- Jurica is meat because Rog says he is Rog -- Learn to read, Don. I didn't come close to saying Jurica is meat. What I said was that just because Jurica is at Fresno and Panik is at Richmond doesn't mean Jurica has moved ahead of Panik as a prospect. Your even asking if that were case is rather foolish. There are many reasons it doesn't mean Jurica has moved ahead of Panik as a prospect, perhaps the most obvious of them being that the Giants are moving Panik to second base while Jurica is basically being groomed as a utility infielder. That Panik is batting 3rd for Richmond while Jurica is batting 9th for Fresno might be another clue. If Jurica's leapfrogging to Fresno is indicative of a drop in consideration as a prospect for anyone, don't you think it is Ehire Adrianza, who stayed as the Richmond shortstop instead of being promoted to Fresno? But it isn't even necessarily a bad sign for Adrianza, who could scarcely expect to be promoted after hitting just .220 at Richmond last year. I personally don't think the flea-flicking Adrianza will hit, but the Giants don't appear to have given up on the idea. He's batting 2nd for Richmond. What was the spot in the order, again, that Jurica is batting for Fresno? When the Fresno shortstop position ultimately falls into the hands of either Nick Noonan or Tony Abreu as seems likely, Jurica will likely be spending a lot of time on the pine. While Panik and even Adrianza are hitting near the top of the Richmond lineup. Wouldn't you agree that it is clear that the Giants consider Panik a better prospect than Jurica, even though Carter did have a nice season at San Jose last year after not hitting much in his first two years in the organization? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1667&page=1#10112#ixzz2PtVmYmqh
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2013 13:01:35 GMT -5
Don -- what bothers me is that the Giants have said right from the day they drafted Panik that they would switch him to second base and since Jurica was drafted as a shortstop, why did they kill one year in developing Panih at second. Rog -- I'm not sure what the Giants said about Panik, but they likely indicated they MIGHT switch him to second base. I know that was the standard wisdom. But why rush him there? Let's suppose Brandon Crawford hadn't established himself as a major league shortstop. Wouldn't it have made sense for Panik to keep playing the position, since he would have been a likely substitute for the intermediate term? You know the old adage that a good shortstop can play anywhere on the infield? The Giants played Panik at second in the Arizona Fall League a couple of winters ago while playing Crawford at shortstop. That gave Joe a little experience at the position. Now they feel confident enough in Crawford that they are moving Panik to second base. It is usually a good idea to at least TRY to put yourself into the heads of others when you disagree with what they are doing. At least TRY to understand what their reasons might be. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1667&page=1#ixzz2PtawWogm
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2013 13:05:21 GMT -5
Don -- it also seems strange that Adrianza, considered to be a good fielding SS and who showed signs of hitting in the end of last season was kept another year in AA and Jurica was skipped over AA into Fresno..... Rog -- Adrianza already appears to have a major league glove, but his bat played at .220 in AA last season. Doesn't it make sense to give him a shot at mastering AA pitching before promoting him to AAA? Don -- but we can't say anything because the Giants have finally won after all those years and all the guys that were looking for managements skin over the losing years are now putting them above reproach,,,, Rog -- Say whatever you want. While sometimes you do come up with valid questions and ideas, most of the time it appears you are just an unconventional whiner. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1667&page=1#ixzz2PtcnZP25
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Post by rxmeister on Apr 9, 2013 14:33:53 GMT -5
Check out Augusta and San Jose this year too, because the Giants first three picks from last year are there and all are off to strong starts. Number one pick Chris Stratton gave up just one run in 5 innings, striking out three. Number two pick Martin Agosto threw five scoreless with six K's in his debut, and number three pick Mac Williamson who's considered a five tool prospect is already hitting cleanup for San Jose, and in five games is hitting .333 with two HR's and a triple. He also made a great catch that reminded fans of Blanco's catch in Cain's perfect game.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 10, 2013 6:00:48 GMT -5
San Jose's pithers struck out 14 last night, and their team ERA is 1.87.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 10, 2013 6:07:12 GMT -5
After a 1 for 12 start to his Richmond season, Joe Panik has risen to a .240 average. Gary Brown has dropped to .174 at Fresno.
Mark mentioned Mac Williamson. Mac is hitting .333 with an .833 SLG at San Jose.
Francisco Peguero certainly isn't hurting his cause of being called up to the Giants' outfield at some point this season, ripping at a .440 clip. Cole Gillespie is hitting .333 with an .878 OPS. Tony Abreu has yet to play this season.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 10, 2013 6:09:03 GMT -5
Forgot to mention that Roger Kieschnick is hitting .429 for Fresno.
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 10, 2013 12:16:14 GMT -5
Check out Augusta and San Jose this year too, because the Giants first three picks from last year are there and all are off to strong starts. Number one pick Chris Stratton gave up just one run in 5 innings, striking out three. Number two pick Martin Agosto threw five scoreless with six K's in his debut, and number three pick Mac Williamson who's considered a five tool prospect is already hitting cleanup for San Jose, and in five games is hitting .333 with two HR's and a triple. He also made a great catch that reminded fans of Blanco's catch in Cain's perfect game. Williamson came out of the game early on Monday and didn't play Tuesday...injury?
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 10, 2013 12:51:38 GMT -5
Don -- what bothers me is that the Giants have said right from the day they drafted Panik that they would switch him to second base and since Jurica was drafted as a shortstop, why did they kill one year in developing Panih at second. Rog -- I'm not sure what the Giants said about Panik, but they likely indicated they MIGHT switch him to second base. I know that was the standard wisdom. But why rush him there? Let's suppose Brandon Crawford hadn't established himself as a major league shortstop. Wouldn't it have made sense for Panik to keep playing the position, since he would have been a likely substitute for the intermediate term? dk..it makes no sense to keep him at SS if he doesn't have the arm for the job....as "standard wisdom" had said... the Giants had backup for Crawford with more experience at higher levels than Panik...e4specially Arias... You know the old adage that a good shortstop can play anywhere on the infield? The Giants played Panik at second in the Arizona Fall League a couple of winters ago while playing Crawford at shortstop. That gave Joe a little experience at the position. dk...that old adage is BS...there is a difficult learning process in making the second baseman pivot on DP's that not all SS can learn.... Jurica batted second against Wheeler...2 for 3 with a double...now hitting .375......mighty small sample ....since you think it was better for Panik to play AA, does that mean they are ready to throw Jurica in the dumpster after he is missing the experience in AA ball???/ Now they feel confident enough in Crawford that they are moving Panik to second base. dk..when do you think the Giants are going to swap Crawford and Posey in the batting order??? Isn't it pretty short sighted for many to diss the catching of Sanchez?? The last time Posey caught Tim there were 2 PB and one WP....and no one dissed Buster It is usually a good idea to at least TRY to put yourself into the heads of others when you disagree with what they are doing. At least TRY to understand what their reasons might be. dk..how can you say that with a straight face...I spent over 2 years trying to get you to stop whinning on how they were handling Tim...crying over the fact that Bengie wasn't calling for more changes, etc....I think I have earned the right to question thing going on with the Giants after 78 years of following them.....
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 10, 2013 14:26:08 GMT -5
dk...that old adage is BS...there is a difficult learning process in making the second baseman pivot on DP's that not all SS can learn.... Rog -- I don't think the old adage that a good shortstop can play anywhere on the infield is true 100% of the time (which is probably wat makes it an adage as opposed to a fact, since an adage is a general truth, whereas a fact is a 100% truth), but I think more shortstops can play a good second base than second basemen can play a good shortstop. In general, shortstops are faster, quicker, more sure-handed and in particular have stronger arms. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1667&page=1#10150#ixzz2Q5eE54E1
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 10, 2013 14:29:24 GMT -5
dk..it makes no sense to keep him at SS if he doesn't have the arm for the job.... Rog -- From what I have read, Joe would be an adequate shortstop, whereas he could be an above-average second baseman. Until Brandon Crawford established himself as the likely shortstop of the present and future, I would say it made sense to keep Panik at shortstop, where his bat would play extremely well. I suspect Joe will make the move to second base just fine. Two of his top attributes as a baseball player are his intelligence and instincts. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1667&page=1#ixzz2Q5fBR0Jv
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 10, 2013 14:30:12 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 10, 2013 14:32:07 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 10, 2013 14:33:21 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 10, 2013 14:42:43 GMT -5
Don -- crying over the fact that Bengie wasn't calling for more changes, etc Rog -- Now THAT I did. As a rookie, Tim threw 13% change ups and had a 4.00 ERA. In 2008 the change ups increased to 18%, and his ERA dropped to 2.62. You didn't believe me when I said that when Tim came up, I knew more about his stuff than Bengie did, did you? You failed to give proper credence to my having seen Tim pitch more in games than Bengie had. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1667&page=1#ixzz2Q5guaMix
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 10, 2013 22:51:22 GMT -5
Don -- crying over the fact that Bengie wasn't calling for more changes, etc Rog -- Now THAT I did. As a rookie, Tim threw 13% change ups and had a 4.00 ERA. In 2008 the change ups increased to 18%, and his ERA dropped to 2.62. You didn't believe me when I said that when Tim came up, I knew more about his stuff than Bengie did, did you? You failed to give proper credence to my having seen Tim pitch more in games than Bengie had. dk...so?? Did you whine or didn't you??? and what I told you back then, you didn't see him as much as the Giants management and scouts that cover their minor league teams, and they know what they were looking at...certainly, even their girlfriends probably know more than you.....the -recap of every game that Tim pitched was logged and discussed with Bengie...and Tim and Bengie knew what 2was working while he was warming up.....you really don't know crap, do you? ?
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 11, 2013 10:26:56 GMT -5
Don -- crying over the fact that Bengie wasn't calling for more changes, etc Rog -- Now THAT I did. As a rookie, Tim threw 13% change ups and had a 4.00 ERA. In 2008 the change ups increased to 18%, and his ERA dropped to 2.62. You didn't believe me when I said that when Tim came up, I knew more about his stuff than Bengie did, did you? You failed to give proper credence to my having seen Tim pitch more in games than Bengie had. dk...so?? Did you whine or didn't you??? Rog -- No. I discussed. I pretty much never whine. Don -- and what I told you back then, you didn't see him as much as the Giants management and scouts that cover their minor league teams Rog -- I have mentioned that Dick Tidrow may have seen him more than I, and I suppose it is possible Bobby Evans did, as well. But as for the scouts, probably not, since he played for three different minor league teams as a Giant. Don -- , and they know what they were looking at...certainly, even their girlfriends probably know more than you..... Rog -- Probably not. Don -- the -recap of every game that Tim pitched was logged and discussed with Bengie...and Tim and Bengie knew what 2was working while he was warming up..... Rog -- I'm going to guess that Bengie had at best a rudimentary knowledge of Tim's MINOR LEAGUE starts. Let's put it this way: I didn't see anyone (scouts or otherwise) sitting down low behind the plate taking notes on each pitch as I was. As for what is working when a pitcher warms up, that isn't always what works in the game. You remember that I was calling for more curves and change ups, don't you? According to Fan Graphs, in his rookie season Tim's curve ball was 2 1/2 times as effective as his fastball, while his change up was 5 times as effective. And I haven't even mentioned discussions I had with Tim's dad, who might have seen him pitch in his life more than Bengie. I'm pretty convinced that when Tim came up, I knew more about his pitching than Bengie did. If Tim's secondary pitches were 2 1/2 and 5 times more effective than Tim's fastball, why did Bengie have Tim throw 85 fastballs on his 100 pitches in his debut? Don -- you really don't know crap, do you? ? Rog -- No. And I hope no one else here does, either. Ewwww! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1667&page=1#10183#ixzz2QAUTEpAg
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