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Post by sharksrog on Apr 22, 2013 14:47:53 GMT -5
Seldom has a pitcher done so much with so little.
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Post by rxmeister on Apr 22, 2013 20:38:16 GMT -5
The stat that gets me is that since the beginning of last year, he has had SEVEN outings of seven or more innings of shut out ball. The only pitchers with more than that are Felix Hernandez with nine, and both Clayton Kershaw and RA Dickey with eight. Those are all pitchers with recent Cy Young's. Amazing.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 23, 2013 8:56:04 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the deal is with Barry. Some days he can be very good; others, he can be crushed.
When hitters don't hit him, it's almost as if his pitches are TOO slow for them.
One would think batters could just wait for his 83.4 mph fastball, which he throws 40% of the time. My guess is that he misses with his other pitches a fair percentage of the time anyway.
I guess the results indicate that if Barry is razor-sharp, he can be as good as ever. But if he's not? Well, when he's good, he's good. When he's bad, he can be horrible.
Let's just hope his mirrors don't break.
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 23, 2013 12:47:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the deal is with Barry. Some days he can be very good; others, he can be crushed. When hitters don't hit him, it's almost as if his pitches are TOO slow for them. One would think batters could just wait for his 83.4 mph fastball, which he throws 40% of the time. My guess is that he misses with his other pitches a fair percentage of the time anyway. I guess the results indicate that if Barry is razor-sharp, he can be as good as ever. But if he's not? Well, when he's good, he's good. When he's bad, he can be horrible. Let's just hope his mirrors don't break. dk..now you are starting to understand a little about the "art" of pitching....there is nothing wrong with a 84 fast ball if it is put in the right place and is mixed with his breaking balls....Zito was having a lot of trouble in past years when he was afraid to use his "fast" ball....as I said at the time, he has to drive the batters off the plate and sitting on the breaking ball....and the guy works his rear off improving his game.... we all were on the Giants for bringing in Zito, but Barry has turned his game around and battles every inning he is on the mound.....there isn't a pitcher in baseball that can't be beat if he is off his game, what ever it is....
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 23, 2013 21:10:16 GMT -5
dk..now you are starting to understand a little about the "art" of pitching....there is nothing wrong with a 84 fast ball if it is put in the right place and is mixed with his breaking balls....Zito was having a lot of trouble in past years when he was afraid to use his "fast" ball
Boagie- I don't know what the percentages are of pitches he used before compared to now, but my guess would be he actually used his fastball more prior to 2012. I believe he used his fastball more often early in the count, and saved his breaking stuff for his out pitch. It's much easier to lay off a breaking pitch when you're expecting a fastball, than it is to catch up to a fastball when you're expecting a breaking pitch. But now, Barry has created a situation where the batter isn't sitting dead red anymore, when in previous years they were. I think this is what has made Barry successful recently.
That being said, I believe your comment on him being afraid to throw the fastball is inaccurate. The problem IMO was that he threw it too much, enough so that batters could sit on it. Perhaps the fact that hitters crushed his fastball did make him afraid to throw it eventually, but I don't think his lack of throwing it was the problem. Again, just my opinion.
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donk
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Post by donk on Apr 24, 2013 2:32:53 GMT -5
Rog, I have been commenting on his loss of confidence on throwing his fastball and I said it started in his last year in Oakland.....I kept saying he got to throw more fastballs to set up his stuff...he finally did it last year and his pitching has improved.....and you never once questioned what I wrote about Zito...now you want to argue...you are one sick puppy....
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 24, 2013 9:37:24 GMT -5
Boagie- I don't know what the percentages are of pitches he used before compared to now, but my guess would be he actually used his fastball more prior to 2012. I believe he used his fastball more often early in the count, and saved his breaking stuff for his out pitch. It's much easier to lay off a breaking pitch when you're expecting a fastball, than it is to catch up to a fastball when you're expecting a breaking pitch. But now, Barry has created a situation where the batter isn't sitting dead red anymore, when in previous years they were. I think this is what has made Barry successful recently. Rog -- You are correct, Boagie, that Barry began to throw fewer fastballs in 2012. He has also cut back on his change ups. What he is throwing a lot more is his slider. I would like to correct what I believe is a misconception about how Barry has pitched for the Giants though. He was awful in his injury-riddled 2011 season, and he was bad in 2009. But in his other four full seasons as a Giant, he has put up ERA's of 4.03, 4.53, 4.15 and 4.15. That's certainly nothing compared to his contract, but over the four seasons I mentioned, he was around league average for a starter. And I don't think he has received enough credit for that. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1685&page=1#10390#ixzz2ROKVbyHw
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 24, 2013 10:20:26 GMT -5
Rog -- You are correct, Boagie, that Barry began to throw fewer fastballs in 2012. He has also cut back on his change ups. What he is throwing a lot more is his slider.
I would like to correct what I believe is a misconception about how Barry has pitched for the Giants though. He was awful in his injury-riddled 2011 season, and he was bad in 2009. But in his other four full seasons as a Giant, he has put up ERA's of 4.03, 4.53, 4.15 and 4.15.
Boagie- I've always said Barry was an average or above average #5 starter. But, as you've stated before (which I disagree with) Barry's best year wasn't in 2012. I think he has definitely become a better pitcher.
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 24, 2013 12:06:26 GMT -5
dk..now you are starting to understand a little about the "art" of pitching... Rog -- You're right. I completely ignored Warren Spahn when the game's winningest left-hander said pitching was the art of destroying hitters' timing. After all, what the heck did SPAHNIE know? Speaking of Warren, he gave up Willie Mays' first hit, a home run over the left field roof. Mays had been 0 for 12 at the time. Spahnie has joked that if he had just gotten Willie out then, maybe National League pitchers could have been saved 20 years of having to face Willie. Many are aware that Willie was 0 for 12 until he hit that prodigious homer. What fewer know is that Willie went 0 for 13 immediately after the homer. Mays was literally crying in front of his locker, when manager Leo Durocher told Willie, "You're my center fielder as long as I'm here." Willie then began to hit and went on to become the 1951 NL Rookie of the Year. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1685&page=1#10408#ixzz2ROvgjDwp
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Post by sharksrog on Apr 24, 2013 12:10:23 GMT -5
Rog, I have been commenting on his loss of confidence on throwing his fastball and I said it started in his last year in Oakland.....I kept saying he got to throw more fastballs to set up his stuff...he finally did it last year and his pitching has improved.....and you never once questioned what I wrote about Zito...now you want to argue...you are one sick puppy.... Rog -- This sick puppy can only continue to take Ex-Lax and say that according to Fan Graphs, Barry's fastball usage in 2012 dropped twice as much from 2011 as his usage had dropped from his rookie season. I hope that comment doesn't land me in the doghouse with you. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1685&page=1#ixzz2ROxKYlJA
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