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Post by klaiggeb on May 18, 2013 10:42:37 GMT -5
1-Justin Upton. What outstanding potential both on offense and defense!
But we saw many of the reasons why I NEVER wanted, nor want him on the Giant's team, during our recent series with them; His often lacksidasical defense.
Unlike what I've seen from Giant players, Justin doesn't ever really seem to either be into the game, nor does he seem to grasp the "team first" concept.
And I don't give a rat's patootie about his grand slam last night. His occasional moments with the bat aren't enough to out weigh his attitude in the club house, and his defense on the field.
2-I don't know how Righetti is going to 'fix' the problem, but it's time to be painfully honest; the 2013 starting staff AIN'T what it has been from 2010 forward.
Cain has been inconsistant, though over all better.
Vogey... well, we've seen what he's done.
Bumgarner has had 2 off nights in his last 3 starts.
Lincecum... I've ranted enough about him.
3-Scutaro may be hitting, but in these last 8 games or so, he's been butchering plays in the field.
And I don't care what Krukow says; I've MADE that play that Scutaro dropped in short right field last night dozens of times, starting as a 12 year old kid, right up through ball in the Military. Difficult play? No, not really. He got to the ball in plenty of time.
Above average play? Yes.
But once again, he booted a very, very makeable play.
And they scored it an error?!?!?!?!?!?!
Please. Spare me! Major league second basemen should make that play 99 out of 99 times.
By my count, he's now butcherd (meaning screwed up very make able plays) 5 to 6 balls in the last 8 games or so.
4-Without Gregor's defense in LF, we would NOT have even gotten to the WS last year. As well as Melky hit, with the glove, he's not Blanco. Not even close.
At best, Melky is an above average LF.
Blanco is exceptional.
5-With Pill back, and looking so good, time to get belt some playing time in LF, and get Pill's bat in the lineup.
Pill plays a very good first base. Soft, soft hands.
Blanco will always be "iffy" at the plate.
6-Time for everyone on this board to give Crawford his due with the bat. The kid has learned how to hit!
7-If Crawford doesn't win the Gold Glove at SS this year, I don't know who should. Wow!
8-Romo's arm already seems to be showing the wear and tear of being the closer.
He's had LOTS of time off recently... and his command is no where near where it was, his slider isn't biting as it did, and in general, he's simply not as sharp.
9-Machi deserves to be with the big club, and right now, I'm not sure Kontos does.
10-IN the last 3 to 4 weeks, Buster's defense has begun to often, not always, but OFTEN remind me of Lazy Benny.
We saw it again last night on that assinine past ball.
Yeah, it hit the plate, but IF he does the proper technique and drops to block... NO past ball.
Instead, he did the "infielder's scoop" and missed.
11-I can't remember when I've seen Giant defense SO BAD as it's been since and including Toronto.
Last night's errors were of the '62 Met variety. Down right INEXCUSEABLE! Starting.
I expect plays like Burmgarner's screw up, Pagan's over throw and Sandovals idiotic throw from litte leaguers, not big leaguers.
12-No matter how bad our pitching has been, you simple HAVE TO LOVE the way the Giants always battle. I've never EVER seen a Giant team fight like this. Never.
And I've been with them since 1956,
13-And finally, how far out in front would we be IF our pitching was at the least, what it was last year, or even 2011.
10 games?
12?
boly
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Post by allenreed on May 18, 2013 11:34:19 GMT -5
1-Justin Upton. What outstanding potential both on offense and defense! But we saw many of the reasons why I NEVER wanted, nor want him on the Giant's team, during our recent series with them; His often lacksidasical defense. Unlike what I've seen from Giant players, Justin doesn't ever really seem to either be into the game, nor does he seem to grasp the "team first" concept. And I don't give a rat's patootie about his grand slam last night. His occasional moments with the bat aren't enough to out weigh his attitude in the club house, and his defense on the field. Allen- I like our left field combo, and I'm fine with Blanco as a hitter, but I'd take Upton over them in a heartbeat. I'm not sure putting him with his brother was a good idea, but I'd like to see him in our lineup. I believe Justin's leading MLB in homers, and that can never be a bad thing. 4-Without Gregor's defense in LF, we would NOT have even gotten to the WS last year. As well as Melky hit, with the glove, he's not Blanco. Not even close. At best, Melky is an above average LF. Blanco is exceptional. Allen- He is. Melky has a better arm though. 5-With Pill back, and looking so good, time to get belt some playing time in LF, and get Pill's bat in the lineup. Pill plays a very good first base. Soft, soft hands. Allen- Can't see it. I might sit Belt against tough lefties, but that's it. Why put Belt in left when both Blanco and Torres are excellent defensively, and Belt is excellent at first? You weaken two positions. Pill is hitting well, but there's just no place for him. It might be a good time to try to trade him. 6-Time for everyone on this board to give Crawford his due with the bat. The kid has learned how to hit! Allen- Absolutely. 7-If Crawford doesn't win the Gold Glove at SS this year, I don't know who should. Wow! Allen- As of now, agreed. 8-Romo's arm already seems to be showing the wear and tear of being the closer. He's had LOTS of time off recently... and his command is no where near where it was, his slider isn't biting as it did, and in general, he's simply not as sharp. Allen- Perhaps the lack of work is causing the maladies you mention here. 9-Machi deserves to be with the big club, and right now, I'm not sure Kontos does. Allen- Do you see Machi as being appreciably better? I'm not disagreeing, I'm asking. I think it might be a good idea to see if Kontos can start. Zito and Vogey are both 35, Timmy may leave after this year, and I'm not sure we can depend on the good health of our starters forever. 10-IN the last 3 to 4 weeks, Buster's defense has begun to often, not always, but OFTEN remind me of Lazy Benny. We saw it again last night on that assinine past ball. Yeah, it hit the plate, but IF he does the proper technique and drops to block... NO past ball. Allen- If it hit the plate, it should have been a wild pitch. 11-I can't remember when I've seen Giant defense SO BAD as it's been since and including Toronto. Allen- Agreed. |
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Post by Islandboagie on May 18, 2013 12:12:41 GMT -5
Boly- 1-Justin Upton. What outstanding potential both on offense and defense!
But we saw many of the reasons why I NEVER wanted, nor want him on the Giant's team, during our recent series with them; His often lacksidasical defense.
Unlike what I've seen from Giant players, Justin doesn't ever really seem to either be into the game, nor does he seem to grasp the "team first" concept.
And I don't give a rat's patootie about his grand slam last night. His occasional moments with the bat aren't enough to out weigh his attitude in the club house, and his defense on the field.
Boagie- Couldn't have said it better myself. I said before the season, the Braves getting both Upton brothers was a big risk, because when they do good they're fine, but when they start losing they mail it in and become a distraction.
4-Without Gregor's defense in LF, we would NOT have even gotten to the WS last year. As well as Melky hit, with the glove, he's not Blanco. Not even close.
At best, Melky is an above average LF.
Blanco is exceptional.
Boagie- Blanco for whatever reason is one of my favorite players, what impresses me about Blanco is he doesn't try to do too much with his at-bats. He's in a spot in the order that normally wants to try to drive in runs, Blanco just tries to put the ball in play or get on base, which thus far, this year, he's done relatively well at.
Melky Cabrera is dumb as a stump off the field, but on the field I still can't remember a mistake he made in LF. He got to every ball he should have, and made the correct throws in the correct situations. He was also a very good base runner. His on the field baseball intelligence is through the roof. It's too bad he's a moron off the field and we had to part ways with him.
Angel Pagan is the exact opposite. He seems like a very smart, well spoken nice guy off the field, I love his attitude and the way he condusts himself with his teammates. Unfortunately he's dumb on the field. He misreads balls, takes bad routes, just plain drops balls, throws to the wrong bases, and he makes bad decisions on the base paths. I still love the guy, but his baseball intelligence is pretty low.
That being said, I take Pagan over Cabrera any day, and twice on Sunday.
Boly- 3-Scutaro may be hitting, but in these last 8 games or so, he's been butchering plays in the field.
And I don't care what Krukow says; I've MADE that play that Scutaro dropped in short right field last night dozens of times, starting as a 12 year old kid, right up through ball in the Military. Difficult play? No, not really. He got to the ball in plenty of time.
Boagie- I think we've all made that play, and likely would have done so at a frequent rate. However, Scutaro can play the hard hit ball pretty well and can also hit .360 in the post-season, which is why he's the second baseman for the Giants, and we're not.
As far as Krukow, he's a homer and always makes excuses for an error by the Giants. The most critical he'll be against a player is he'll say "If you ask Scutaro he'll tell you he should have made that play." I get his stance on that though, Dwayne and Mike have a relationship with the players, they go down in the clubhouse and talk it up with them, I get why they aren't too critical.
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Post by allenreed on May 18, 2013 13:09:38 GMT -5
Just not the way the Giants do things. Their announcers are hopeless shills, and the fans seem to like it that way. Nothing wrong with it, they tell you what's happening, and if a Giant makes a bad play, about half the time they'll point it out. Krukow can give some good insight. Flemming and Miller are both excellent announcers. But if you're looking for someone to tell you something negative about the Giants or their players, look elsewhere.
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Post by klaiggeb on May 18, 2013 15:50:00 GMT -5
Just not the way the Giants do things. Their announcers are hopeless shills, and the fans seem to like it that way. Nothing wrong with it, they tell you what's happening, and if a Giant makes a bad play, about half the time they'll point it out. Krukow can give some good insight. Flemming and Miller are both excellent announcers. But if you're looking for someone to tell you something negative about the Giants or their players, look elsewhere.
--boly---
Allen, no question they are huge Giant fans, but IF... IF we compare them to other pairs, they are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much less shills, and sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much less homers, that it's not even a fair comparison.
The worst, as I've often said, Grant, SD
The morons in Arizona
The clowns in Milwaukee.
The doinks on the Cubs.
Give me our guys any day.
why?
Because they give the other teams and players credit... and a LOT OF IT, when they deserve it.
especially Krukow.
Yeah, they are still shills, whatever club pays them expects that.
But as I say, sooooooooooooooo mcuh better than EVERY ONE else.
Flemming is marginal, but he's a bigger homer than either Kruk or Kuip.
And I used to like Miller, but he's lost his appeal to me.
Stiill better than any one else out there not named Krukow or Kuiper, but I'll take our pair.
boly
boly
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Post by allenreed on May 18, 2013 20:23:43 GMT -5
As you feel about Miller, I feel about Krukow. He's a good color guy, but get some new material for crying out loud. It's the same lines over and overr and over. I used to amaze my daughter by saying his lines before he did. "One to time. One to rake." " I wanna get that X 3". "In the squat". It's just the same schtick, every game.
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Post by klaiggeb on May 19, 2013 9:26:21 GMT -5
As you feel about Miller, I feel about Krukow. He's a good color guy, but get some new material for crying out loud. It's the same lines over and overr and over. I used to amaze my daughter by saying his lines before he did. "One to time. One to rake." " I wanna get that X --
-boly says---
You and I have no way of knowing, but IF... IF we were to watch all the games of another team of announcers, I'll bet it would be the same thing, Allen.
boly
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Post by allenreed on May 19, 2013 12:19:21 GMT -5
I watch almost all of the Yankee games, but they change announcers fairly often. Paul O'Neill, David Cone, Ken Singleton, Al Leiter, Michael Kay, Jim Kaat, John Flaherty, and more have all worked Yankee games. So they never really get old.
I listen to Vin alot, and he has his schtick, but it isn't as repetitive as Krukow. The only other guys I listen to consistently is Ken Harrelson and Steve Stone with the White Sox. In Harrelson's case, you are definitely right.
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Post by sharksrog on May 19, 2013 23:55:25 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on May 19, 2013 23:58:23 GMT -5
Boly -- 8-Romo's arm already seems to be showing the wear and tear of being the closer. Rog -- I'm not sure closing has much to do with it. I simply think that Sergio's arm has been used a lot for a guy who throws sliders. I think the Giants should use more of a double closer, although Santiago Casilla's knee problems have limited their ability to do so. IMO teams would be a lot better off if they didn't use relievers more than two days in a row unless absolutely necessary. Pitcher's arms in general are vulnerable to injury, and relievers' are REALLY in jeopardy. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1716&page=1#ixzz2To0vcHtv |
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Post by sharksrog on May 20, 2013 0:01:18 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on May 20, 2013 10:54:48 GMT -5
Boly -- 7-If Crawford doesn't win the Gold Glove at SS this year, I don't know who should. Wow!
Rog -- Brandon had a horrible day in the field today, but as you say, he's been excellent. The only real question is range.
---boly says---
After the year he's had, he's entitled to a bad game.
Why not, the whole team just had 6 in a row.
But his range, to my mind, is NOT, and never has been in question.
He has above average, to very good range.
Not Ozzie, and not Vizquel, but darned good range.
Compared to Aurillia's range, Brandon is a super star going left to right.
And he might not have a Showan Duston-like howitzer, but that sucker is live!
boly
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Post by sharksrog on May 20, 2013 10:58:57 GMT -5
Boly -- his range, to my mind, is NOT, and never has been in question. He has above average, to very good range. Not Ozzie, and not Vizquel, but darned good range. Rog -- I agree with you completely on Brandon's range. It's not a problem area, but it's also not outstanding. It is the one factor that may preclude him from becoming the BEST shortstop in the league. He is already among the best. Brandon is extremely fun to watch at shortstop. If he gets to the ball, I can't think of any shortstop who does better with it. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1716&page=1#10892#ixzz2TqhHlqQe |
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Post by klaiggeb on May 20, 2013 11:07:39 GMT -5
Brandon is extremely fun to watch at shortstop. If he gets to the ball, I can't think of any shortstop who does better with it.
---boly says---
Over the years, there have been a lot of good shortstops, but they are not all fun to watch.
Andrelton Simmons, Atlanta, is going to be really good, for instance, but he is NOT smooth, and he is painful to watch field and throw.
The most fun SS to watch, for me, (and I never really saw much of Ozzie) was Vizquel.
After him, the most fun one to watch, from the first game I saw him, was Crawford. He still is, and I have no idea why.
There is a fluid, grace to his play, NOT like Omar, but a fluid grace, none-the-less.
He won't be the best ever, but he's a darned good one!
The best we've had in a long, long... long time.
Maybe the best DEFENSIVE SS in SF Giant History.
I know Lemaster will gleen some votes, as will Uribe.
My deceased step father would have picked Pagan.
But me? Gimme Brandon.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on May 20, 2013 11:21:41 GMT -5
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Post by Islandboagie on May 20, 2013 13:15:54 GMT -5
Omar had the most awareness, even when he played for the Giants. I still remember a play where he looked like he was going to throw the ball to first, instead he spun around and threw behind the runner at 3rd base and even faked out the camera man. You can't teach that kind of defensive awareness, you either have it or you don't.
I don't know if Crawford will ever have that kind of awareness. What he does have is a cannon for an arm which Vizquel never had.
What really separates Brandon and Omar is hitting, Vizquel was downright horrible with the bat in a Giants uniform.
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Post by Islandboagie on May 20, 2013 14:06:19 GMT -5
Allen- As you feel about Miller, I feel about Krukow. He's a good color guy, but get some new material for crying out loud. It's the same lines over and overr and over. I used to amaze my daughter by saying his lines before he did. "One to time. One to rake." " I wanna get that X 3". "In the squat". It's just the same schtick, every game
Boagie- I'm going to have to side with Allen here. The more I hear Krukow, the more I actually appreciate Miller. I don't always get the KNBR broadcasts living in AZ...but sometimes when it's late I can manage to pick it up. And when i do, I hit the mute button on the TV and listen to the radio.
Don't get me wrong though, I love all 4 of them, but Mike Krukow is kind of like the relative that stays too long, you love 'em, but you're kind of tired of 'em.
The other announcers kind of rip on Krukow. Miller and Flemming talk about the gamer babes in a joking manner, and Duane sets up Krukow all the time.
Just last week Duane was doing a game and saw a guy sitting next to a woman, and he had this old glove on...Duane said "oh look Mike, he brought his gamer" Mike didn't say anything, then Duane said "....and his glove." Krukow realizing Kuiper was talking about the woman next to him, got all excited and said "Why..why you're right Kuip, he DID bring his gamer with him." It took Duane a bit to recover from laughing.
Krukow's routine has become so predictable that even Kuiper picks fun at him.
I love Krukow, I think he breaks down the pitching very well, and both him and Kuiper give a good analysis all around. But I just can't stand the gamer babes, fixating on what people are eating and the constant narrative of two kids fighting over cotton candy, when they aren't even fighting over it. I don't need to see a panda hat EVERYTIME Sandoval comes to bat, or a Giraffe EVERYTIME Belt gets in the box. I don't need to see a dumbass wearing a horse head numerous times every Matt Cain start. They need to pull off the crowd and focus on the game.
Miller is annoying about the boats, but he usually does that when the game is lopsided. That's a good time to do that.
The best announced game in recent memory was Matt Cain's perfect game. Krukow was off for some graduation or something, so Kuiper and Miller did the game. No gamer babes, no drooling over food in the stands, just good old fashioned baseball. Of course Matt Cain throwing a perfect game helped. But I bought the DVD of his perfect game, because it was a great game, and I remember thinking to myself that it was worth it because I wouldn't have to skip over all the BS talk from Krukow.
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Post by sharksrog on May 20, 2013 15:28:42 GMT -5
13-And finally, how far out in front would we be IF our pitching was at the least, what it was last year, or even 2011. 10 games? 12? Rog -- No way to know, of course. But probably closer to four or five. Pitching to their previous levels would have been worth about a run per game. Over the course of a full season, an extra run per game wins about 16 more games. The season is a quarter over, so the Giants would likely have won four or five more games -- and their division opponents might have won a game or two fewer. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1716&page=1#10909#ixzz2Trmpxlkn |
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donk
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Post by donk on May 20, 2013 15:38:57 GMT -5
Allen- As you feel about Miller, I feel about Krukow. He's a good color guy, but get some new material for crying out loud. It's the same lines over and overr and over. I used to amaze my daughter by saying his lines before he did. "One to time. One to rake." " I wanna get that X 3". "In the squat". It's just the same schtick, every game Boagie- I'm going to have to side with Allen here. The more I hear Krukow, the more I actually appreciate Miller. I don't always get the KNBR broadcasts living in AZ...but sometimes when it's late I can manage to pick it up. And when i do, I hit the mute button on the TV and listen to the radio. Don't get me wrong though, I love all 4 of them, but Mike Krukow is kind of like the relative that stays too long, you love 'em, but you're kind of tired of 'em. The other announcers kind of rip on Krukow. Miller and Flemming talk about the gamer babes in a joking manner, and Duane sets up Krukow all the time. Just last week Duane was doing a game and saw a guy sitting next to a woman, and he had this old glove on...Duane said "oh look Mike, he brought his gamer" Mike didn't say anything, then Duane said "....and his glove." Krukow realizing Kuiper was talking about the woman next to him, got all excited and said "Why..why you're right Kuip, he DID bring his gamer with him." It took Duane a bit to recover from laughing. Krukow's routine has become so predictable that even Kuiper picks fun at him. I love Krukow, I think he breaks down the pitching very well, and both him and Kuiper give a good analysis all around. But I just can't stand the gamer babes, fixating on what people are eating and the constant narrative of two kids fighting over cotton candy, when they aren't even fighting over it. I don't need to see a panda hat EVERYTIME Sandoval comes to bat, or a Giraffe EVERYTIME Belt gets in the box. I don't need to see a dumbass wearing a horse head numerous times every Matt Cain start. They need to pull off the crowd and focus on the game. Miller is annoying about the boats, but he usually does that when the game is lopsided. That's a good time to do that. The best announced game in recent memory was Matt Cain's perfect game. Krukow was off for some graduation or something, so Kuiper and Miller did the game. No gamer babes, no drooling over food in the stands, just good old fashioned baseball. Of course Matt Cain throwing a perfect game helped. But I bought the DVD of his perfect game, because it was a great game, and I remember thinking to myself that it was worth it because I wouldn't have to skip over all the BS talk from Krukow. dk..just consider how lucky you are if you didn't have to watch the Giants on the Rockies station...bad enough to get beat, but they were talking to their "Ami" all during the game...and in between they snuck their GM and other guys into the booth...they sure didn't worry too much of what was happening on the field....after my comments about the terrible umpire calls compared to the pitch tracer, they showed very few pitches on the tracer...right after it was clear that the ump missed the first three close pitches.....no excuses calls were against both teams.... |
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Post by allenreed on May 20, 2013 18:01:06 GMT -5
As I believe I've mentioned here, the Rockies may have the worst announcers in MLB. It's extremely hard to listen to them. I was watching one night when they went four full batters without even mentioning what was going on on the field. Ball being hit, runners moving around the bases, they were totally oblivious to it all. And who in the world is the clown with the cowboy hat?
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Post by Islandboagie on May 20, 2013 19:10:06 GMT -5
I have the baseball package on dirst tv, so I've heard all of the NL announcers more than a few times, and when I speak of our guys it's not in comparison to the other guys. I'm judging mainly on what I think they could be, and what they've been in the past. Krukow was great before all the gamer babes and bs took over, I wish he'd go back to that.
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