Vogey

[klaiggeb]

Thank you, Mike Krukow, for vocalizing what I'd been contemplating writing: That Vogey pitched A LOT better in his last start than he has been pitching.

Yeah, he got roughed up in the 5th.

Yeah, McCann took him deep.

But get past that; look at his location for most of the game, and his velocity.

For a large portion of his outting THAT was the Vogey we've grown accustomed to seeing.

His previous start I thought he flirted with what he used to be, and he got even closer last outting.

Unlike Tim, I believe he's showing better command each time out and MAN! Do we need him back!

We can live with one question mark in our rotation, but not 3.

Bumgarner has been solid, even better than expected
Zito hasn't been bad. He's been a solid # 4 guy for any rotation
I think we can all agree that Cain is likely, back.
Vogey, as Krukow said, is close.
Tim? Nope. I think he'll continue to be a question mark the rest of the way. For me to be convinced he's NOT a question mark, he's going to have to string together 5 or 6 starts where he's not all over the frickin' lot.

In other words, show us command of the strike zone, dude.

Anyway, that's what boly thinks on this Saturday.

boly

[allenreed]

Vogey (and Cain before last night) just hasn't been able to hit corners like they did before. They're falling behind, then have to come in, and usually, that ain't good. I hope Ryan is close, but let's remember that Vogey is 35 years old.

[sharksrog]

Allen -- Vogey (and Cain before last night) just hasn't been able to hit corners like they did before. They're falling behind, then have to come in, and usually, that ain't good. I hope Ryan is close, but let's remember that Vogey is 35 years old.

Rog -- One good sign regarding Ryan is that he struggled horribly late last season, then righted himself to become the Giants' best starter the rest of the season and post-season.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1704#ixzz2TOVldehg

[klaiggeb]

I've been watching very closely in Vogey's last 3 starts, and though he's come very FAT with a lot of his pitches, what I have also noticed is how, even when he makes a good/great pitch, it, too, tends to get hammered.

A great example would be Melky's 1st ab last night; great, snapping curve ball... and though it went for an out, Melky hammered it to right.

So, though I don't doubt that Vogey is struggling, I am also beginning to suspect his somehow tipping his pitches.

Too many good pitches getting ripped.

Something is wrong, no question.

Tipping pitches can account for part of the problem... but not all of it.

This is simply not the Vogey we've known and grown to love.

boly

[allenreed]

First inning last night he broke two bats. Both went for hits. In addition to that we made two simply inexcusable errors. Toronto can hit. You just can't give them five outs in an inning. I'm not absolving Vogey of all blame, but the Giants just played like crap in both these games.

[sharksrog]

The Giants' defense broke down almost to the point of combined laughter and crying. One thing to remember, though, is that this time last year the defense was playing even worse. Even Brandon Crawford had been poor.

Going into the Toronto series we were asked how they could make so many dumb moves with their roster. They looked pretty good though in clobbering the Giants twice.

Pitching has been their Achilles heel. In the first game of the series we found out that while not much had been mentioned about it, R.A.Dickey is pitching through an injury this season. L

Due to injury Ramon Ortiz started for the Blue Jays last night. Ortiz pitched quite well, but he is the journeyman who wasn't called up from Fresno in 2009 even when an injury to Randy Johnson forced Joey Martinez and Ryan Sadowski to start 11 games between them.

The Jays are missing Josh Johnson (56-38, 3.23 career ERA), Dustin Macgowan (20-24, 4.80 career ERA) and Sergio Santos (3.47 ERA with 30 saves in 2011) from their rotation.

Among their position players, they are missing four-time All-Star shortstop Jose Reyes and outfielder Rajai Davis (231 career steals).

They were criticized here for signing R.A. Dickey, who had been an excellent starter over the past three seasons. They signed Melky Cabrera, who though tainted with steroids, came within one plate appearance of leading the National League in hitting.

They didn't give up a whole lot for four-time All-Star Mark Buehrle, Brandon Morrow (chosen by Seattle ahead of Tim Lincecum in the 2007 draft, and they did trade Brandon League to acquire Morrow) and J.A. Happ -- 3/5ths of their normal rotation.

Nor did they give up much for fleet center fielder Colby Rasmus.

Many picked the Blue Jays to win the AL East, although despite a four-game winning streak, they are still only 17-24 on the season.

I think they got short shrift here.

Meanwhile, despite the two losses in Canada and losing five of their past nine, the Giants still have the best record (23-17) in the National League. They are on pace for 93 wins.

[allenreed]

I picked Toronto to win the AL East. Not so much because I thought they were good, but that I thought the rest of the division had gone bad. The Yankees have gotten surprising contributions out of some rather dubious pickups, such as Vernon Wells, Travis hafner, and Lyle Overbay.
I saw Dickey in the world competition before the season, and he didn't look right then. He got hammered in the opening game. The velocity is down even on the knuckler. I also thought he would have trouble pitching in the Rogers Centre as opposed to Citi Field.
The Jays definitely have talent. As I said, there's still alot of time left. We shall see.

[donk]

I'm surprised there were no comments about the umpiring in Toronto....if the pitch locator was right...and it appeared to be...the ump missed over 50% of the pitches called....tonight's game, the ump didn't seem to miss any calls...

[sharksrog]

Don -- I'm surprised there were no comments about the umpiring in Toronto....if the pitch locator was right...and it appeared to be...the ump missed over 50% of the pitches called....tonight's game, the ump didn't seem to miss any calls...

Rog -- Stop and think about this one. One night an umpire seems to miss more calls then he gets right, and the next the umpire misses nary a call?

Where is our common sense?

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1704&page=1#10832#ixzz2TX8qaLng

[donk]

you stupid SOB, that is the dumbest thing you have ever put on this board...what does one umpire and one pitch tracer in one town have to do with a different umpire in a different city and with a different pitch tracer....your rush to judgement on any thing I write is pretty sad...and as usual you show you complete stupity of all things related to baseball. Common sense? it would be nice if you had any sense at all....

[sharksrog]

Common sense tells us that no major league umpire is going to miss over 50% of pitches called. You nor I am a major league umpire, and yet neither of us would have missed over 50%. In fact, half the time we could get the calls right simply by flipping a coin. As could someone who doesn't even understand the game.

As for my showing complete stupidity of all things related to baseball, I will paraphrase a statement by San Antonio Spurs' coach Popovich when he said that he thought it was considerate of Warriors' guards Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson to take turns and not get (scorching) hot in the same game, rather alternating from game to game.

I try to be considerate and not be COMPLETELY stupid, leaving a little bit for others.

[donk]

your right, no major league ump should be wrong over 50% of the time on balls and strikes, and that was why I wrote that that guy missed over 50% or the pitch tracer was wrong....and last night, the first base umpire blew 2 plays at first base and there were plays and pitches that were also butchered....

[sharksrog]

Don -- your right, no major league ump should be wrong over 50% of the time on balls and strikes, and that was why I wrote that that guy missed over 50% or the pitch tracer was wrong

Rog -- Here is what you actually said, Don: "if the pitch locator was right...and it appeared to be...the ump missed over 50% of the pitches called..." As you can clearly see, you posted that the pitch locator appeared to be RIGHT.

That's quite a bit different than the spin you put on it in your latest comment.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1704&page=1#10850#ixzz2TkrxJVdL

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1704&page=1#10850#ixzz2Tkrm1RII

[donk]

May 19, 2013 11:03:17 GMT -5 sharksrog said:

Don -- your right, no major league ump should be wrong over 50% of the time on balls and strikes, and that was why I wrote that that guy missed over 50% or the pitch tracer was wrong

Rog -- Here is what you actually said, Don: "if the pitch locator was right...and it appeared to be...the ump missed over 50% of the pitches called..." As you can clearly see, you posted that the pitch locator appeared to be RIGHT.

That's quite a bit different than the spin you put on it in your latest comment.

dk...I'm basing my comment on the fact that in most cases, the Rockies announcers, the pitch locator, and I agreed that the Ump was blowing a lot of calls....and I still haven't received anything from someone who watched the games on SF TV.....Why is SF TV lacking the pitch locator? and the 1st base ump blew 2 of the close calls he made....and what is it with the spin comment...the ump was missing calls on both teams...and I don't have anything against umps, only that they don't use the old AL method of calling pitches....

[klaiggeb]

Why is SF TV lacking the pitch locator???

---boly says---

I'd like to see it, too, Don, but as far as I know, that's a Fox Sports Network thingy-ma-bobber.

boly