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Post by sharksrog on Mar 10, 2013 10:55:59 GMT -5
I feel CSN Giants Insider Andrew Baggarly usually has a nice insight into the Giants. Here are some of the things he mentioned in his chat yesterday:. Despite his wonderful start to spring training, Francisco Peguero won't be the starting left fielder and may not even make the team. (He believes Cole Gillespie is the more likely.)But Peguero has at least injected himself into future outfield situations. It is Peguero's low OBP that is holding him back.. Gary Brown will likely be the starting center fielder at Fresno, and could become the Giants' starter in 2014, pushing Angel Pagan to right field.. Brown needs to work on pretty much everything a leadoff hitter needs to do.. The fastest Giants are Brown, Juan Perez, Blanco (fastest out of the bos to 3rd base), Pagan and Torres. I was surprised anyone besides Brown was in the discussion.. Chad Gaudin is most likely to win the final bullpen slot.. Joe Panik, not Brock Bond, is the Giants' second baseman of the future.. Bond likely won't make the roster because he lacks position flexibility (being mostly just a second baseman).. Tanaka hasn't been impressive, and Wilson Valdez has the inside track on the final infield spot.. Pill's power could play a role in a utility roster spot.. Angel Villalona has been optioned to San Jose and will likely start the season there. He, Ricky Oropesa and Mac Williamson (I think that is his name.) were mentioned as power bats in the minors. I would think Chris Dominguez would be another.. Baggs doesn't see a move to first base by Buster Posey anytime soon, but he thinks the sooner issue may be having to move Pablo Sandoval to first, causing a logjam at the position.. Baggs thinks Sandoval's weight has hurt his hitting potential but that it may be overblown as a concern.. Jose Mijares might not be ready, so his job might be up for grabs to open the season. Dan Runzler is said to have been throwing well.
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Post by allenreed on Mar 10, 2013 13:10:42 GMT -5
Gary Brown will likely be the starting center fielder at Fresno, and could become the Giants' starter in 2014, pushing Angel Pagan to right field..
Allen- So we're saying that this is the last year in SF for Hunter Pence?
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 11, 2013 13:09:37 GMT -5
Gary Brown will likely be the starting center fielder at Fresno, and could become the Giants' starter in 2014, pushing Angel Pagan to right field.. Allen- So we're saying that this is the last year in SF for Hunter Pence? Rog -- Oops! I meant left field. As for whether Hunter Pence will return, it's iffy. If Hunter has a poor season, why would the Giants want him back? And if he has a good one, he might be able to command something like 5/$80. One good thing is that Hunter DOES want to stay with the Giants. And I'm sure they would love to have a 2014 outfield of (left to right) Pagan, Brown and Pence. Let's suppose Sandoval stays healthy and hits to his career averages, Pence bounces back, Scutaro continues to hit, and Belt begins to Brandon. Let's also suppose Brown begins to walk more than a little. Suddenly the Giants would have a really good offensive team to go along with their good pitching. Speaking of pitching, the Giants could potentially lose Lincecum, Vogelsong and Zito after this season, although it seems highly likely they will exercise their $6.5 million option on Ryan. This would have seemed almost impossible a year ago (although it was discussed here), but it could make sense for the Giants to exercise Zito's $18 million option for 2014 and not sign Lincecum. Unless Lincecum is awful again, expect the Giants to at least make him a qualifying offer, which would obligate them only to pay about $14 million for one season. Importantly, it would allow them to received draft compensation if Tim signed elsewhere -- which in itself would help keep Tim's price down just a bit. (Think Michael Bourn this year.) For similar reasons, the Giants would likely make a qualifying offer to Pence if Hunter has any kind of bounce back at all. If Brown is ready a year from now, clearly there is a place for him. But what if Joe Panik is ready too? Does Panik become the top utility infielder? (Questionable, since Joe likely should still be playing every day.) Does he become the Giants' second baseman? (What about Marco Scutaro?) Does he become their shortstop? (His glove doesn't come close to equalling Brandon Crawford's.) Do the Giants trade one of the trio of infielders? Things could get quite interesting next winter. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1607&page=1#9459#ixzz2NFodJY9U |
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 11, 2013 13:47:33 GMT -5
but it could make sense for the Giants to exercise Zito's $18 million option for 2014 and not sign Lincecum.
Boagie: If they don't sign either one it would free up almost $40 million on the payroll, we could get 2 very good pitchers for that amount. The only way resigning Zito would make sense is if Lincecum resigns and there's not alot of other options out there to replace Zito.
I know for a fact Josh Johnson is due to become a FA at the end of this year. I'm certain of a few other things about Josh....
- Josh would be a big upgrade over Zito.
- Giving Josh anywhere near $20 million would be a huge pay raise for him.
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 11, 2013 14:22:22 GMT -5
I feel CSN Giants Insider Andrew Baggarly usually has a nice insight into the Giants. Here are some of the things he mentioned in his chat yesterday:. Despite his wonderful start to spring training, Francisco Peguero won't be the starting left fielder and may not even make the team. (He believes Cole Gillespie is the more likely.)But Peguero has at least injected himself into future outfield situations. It is Peguero's low OBP that is holding him back.. Gary Brown will likely be the starting center fielder at Fresno, and could become the Giants' starter in 2014, pushing Angel Pagan to right field.. Brown needs to work on pretty much everything a leadoff hitter needs to do.. The fastest Giants are Brown, Juan Perez, Blanco (fastest out of the bos to 3rd base), Pagan and Torres. I was surprised anyone besides Brown was in the discussion.. Chad Gaudin is most likely to win the final bullpen slot.. Joe Panik, not Brock Bond, is the Giants' second baseman of the future.. Bond likely won't make the roster because he lacks position flexibility (being mostly just a second baseman).. Tanaka hasn't been impressive, and Wilson Valdez has the inside track on the final infield spot.. Pill's power could play a role in a utility roster spot.. Angel Villalona has been optioned to San Jose and will likely start the season there. He, Ricky Oropesa and Mac Williamson (I think that is his name.) were mentioned as power bats in the minors. I would think Chris Dominguez would be another.. Baggs doesn't see a move to first base by Buster Posey anytime soon, but he thinks the sooner issue may be having to move Pablo Sandoval to first, causing a logjam at the position.. Baggs thinks Sandoval's weight has hurt his hitting potential but that it may be overblown as a concern.. Jose Mijares might not be ready, so his job might be up for grabs to open the season. Dan Runzler is said to have been throwing well.
Boagie- I like Baggerly, and he may be correct, but if his name wasn't tied to this article I'd wonder if this person knew anything about the Giants. I disagree with just about everything he said here.
I think Pegeuro has a decent shot at making the team because I don't think he's considered a big prospect that they want to protect. If they had 3 solid outfielders I might agree, but there might be a fair amount of playing time in LF because Torres might not be considered a strong 5th outfielder after spring is over. In fact, with the injury to Torres, I see that being a strong possibility. Again, Baggerly might be right, but it's way too early to say "Peguero won't be starting in LF."
Cole Gillespie is 28 years old and has 110 at-bats at the major league level. Brett Pill is the same age and has more success at the major league level. I'm not sure why Gillespie is considered the front runner in Baggerly's opinion.
Chad Gaudin according to Baggerly is "likely to win the final spot in the bullpen." I disagree again, there might be a front runner in Bochy's mind, but I doubt Baggerly knows what's in Bochy's mind and alot can change between now and then. Considering how many guys Gaudin is up against for the final spot, and figuring the percentages, I'd say it's unlikely for any of them to win the final spot.
Wilson Valdez being the front runner for the final infield bench role seems unlikely to me. Valdez is 34 and has a .594 career OPS. They might end up taking him, but I seriously doubt Bochy and Sabean are leaning towards him. I think anyone else stepping up will get the job.
Pablo moving to first base? Ok, now I know Baggerly is off his rocker here. Right now Belt is our first baseman of the future, I don't see this changing anytime soon. What's he thinking with this one?
And his comment on Runzler throwing good, they've said this the last 3 years, I'm not holding my breath this time.
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Post by allenreed on Mar 11, 2013 14:47:15 GMT -5
Who are the FA pitchers this year? Why would Pablo move to first when Belt is already there? If Pence plays up to where he played prior to arriving here last year 5/$80 might not be too bad, though I'd hate to go that long. Maybe 3/$50.
The pitching is a little more dicey. Re-signing Vogey seems like a no-brainer. Zito's going to have to take a huge cut to stay. Timmy? I have no idea. If he becomes Timmy again, do you give him $20+? I might trade him in the hopes that I'm selling high. If he repeats last year, then maybe you can get him on the cheap.
Gaudin seems likely to become this year's Clay Hensley. I don't get Gillespie as the outfilder either. I'd go with Peguero over him. I think Peguero can do more things, like run, field, and throw. I read in the paper today that they like Abreu for the final infield spot. Has he even played yet?
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 11, 2013 16:08:18 GMT -5
Allen -- Who are the FA pitchers this year?
Rog -- Are you talking about the free agent pitchers the Giants signed this winter, or the pitchers who might become free agents at the end of the season?
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 11, 2013 16:09:20 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 11, 2013 16:10:25 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on Mar 11, 2013 16:24:30 GMT -5
Rog -- Are you talking about the free agent pitchers the Giants signed this winter, or the pitchers who might become free agents at the end of the season?
Allen- The latter.
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 11, 2013 19:54:40 GMT -5
Allen -- The pitching is a little more dicey. Re-signing Vogey seems like a no-brainer. Rog -- Barring disaster, the Giants will exercise their $6.5 million option for 2014. Wise move for them to get the option incorporated into Ryan's contract. Allen -- Zito's going to have to take a huge cut to stay. Rog -- Actually, Allen, he quite possibly isn't. Barry's 2014 option is for $18 million. It sounds like the Giants would be crazy to exercise it, but not when one looks at all the facts. Let's suppose Barry has a good year this year. The Giants can exercise the option for $18 million or they can decline it and pay him $7 million. So the decision becomes, is Barry worth $11 million for one season? If he pitches well this season, the answer is probably yes. Almost certainly yes, really. Getting a league-average pitcher (assuming Barry can become that) for $11 million with just a one-year commitment is a very nice deal. And it would buy the Giants time for their young starting pitchers to develop in the minors. Allen -- Timmy? I have no idea. If he becomes Timmy again, do you give him $20+? I might trade him in the hopes that I'm selling high. Rog -- If the Giants are in it at the trading deadline -- and I almost can't imagine them not being so -- it would be really tough to trade Tim and take a significant piece out of the rotation. In addition, will they be able to get more for him as a lame duck than by waiting for draft compenstaion? They probably could -- assuming he's doing well -- but if Tim is doing well and the Giants are in it, why would they trade him? The time to trade him was a year ago. Allen -- If he repeats last year, then maybe you can get him on the cheap. Rog -- If Tim struggles again this season, I think he would go for a one-year contract in an effort to build back his value. Or he might just accept any qualifying offer the Giants might make. As for getting him truly on the cheap, he would have had to pitch so badly that the Giants probably wouldn't want him back. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1607&page=1#ixzz2NGfcbuie |
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Post by allenreed on Mar 12, 2013 11:37:30 GMT -5
Barry will be a tough call, but let's remember that even with his success last year, his ERA was still 4.15. He's 58-69 (4.47) as a Giant. I guess it depends on who else is available.
Trading Tim would be like trading any other player, it all depends on what you get for him. If he comes back and has a good year, how much is he going to want?
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 12, 2013 14:20:42 GMT -5
Pence is likely not to return, mostly because of his age and situation. If he has a great year, the Giants wont want to pay the price for him that he will likely command on the open market...and if he stinks it up, they would prefer to give his spot to someone else.
~Dood
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 12, 2013 14:54:32 GMT -5
I think what Baggs actually said is that the Giants want Abreu to win that final infield spot and that it was only his early injury that moved Wilson up the ladder. Abreu is back now so it would seem Valdez will have a harder time winning that spot unless Tony gets hurt again.
I'm with Boagie about Gillespie and Gaudin. I don't see what's so special about either of these guys to warrant their spot on the team...unless they just want to cheap out on those spots.
~Dood
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 12, 2013 14:58:11 GMT -5
but it could make sense for the Giants to exercise Zito's $18 million option for 2014 and not sign Lincecum.
Boagie: If they don't sign either one it would free up almost $40 million on the payroll, we could get 2 very good pitchers for that amount.
Dood - I'm not sure that $40 Mil figure would be exactly accurate even before you figure in Zito's buyout (which Im also not sure about but I believe it is $7 mil) unless both pitchers have outstanding years...which, of course, I'm in favor of.
~Dood
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 12, 2013 15:12:41 GMT -5
Baggs doesn't see a move to first base by Buster Posey anytime soon, but he thinks the sooner issue may be having to move Pablo Sandoval to first, causing a logjam at the position.. Baggs thinks Sandoval's weight has hurt his hitting potential but that it may be overblown as a concern
Dood - Ok, this one I believe is as much Rog as it is Baggs. Andrew would never just outright dismiss Belt as the first baseman without as much as mentioning his name. Rog, on the other hand, has wanted Belt keelhalled, tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail pretty much since the beginning.
~Dood
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 12, 2013 17:44:18 GMT -5
Dood - I'm not sure that $40 Mil figure would be exactly accurate even before you figure in Zito's buyout (which Im also not sure about but I believe it is $7 mil) unless both pitchers have outstanding years...which, of course, I'm in favor of.
Boagie- You're right, I forgot to figure in Zito's buyout. Either way though, losing both will free up enough money to replace two spots in our rotation. Not that I want to see either leave.
In fact, as I mentioned months ago, it might not be ridiculous to pick up Zito's option. Not because Zito is necessarily worth it, but because Crick, Stratton, and Blackburn might be ready by 2015, and it might be hard to sign a solid major league starting pitcher to a one year deal to bridge the gap.
Lincecum on the other hand I'd give until about June and if he looks like pre-2012 Timmy, I'd re-offer the 5 year $100 million deal, I think his agent would strongly suggest he take it this time.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 13, 2013 14:57:39 GMT -5
FYI...I liked what I saw from Scott Proctor last night. He's a veteran who lost his electric stuff and has had to adapt. He still throws 93-95 but uses a split more now than he used to. I definitely like him better than the other options. Something I heard from Krukow made me understand a little better why Chad Gaudin is in the conversation. He's a veteran who has started and knows how to give extended innings after not throwing for a while. The last guy in the bullpen probably wont get a lot of work with our starting rotation and solid bullpen.
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 14, 2013 11:37:26 GMT -5
Randy -- I think what Baggs actually said is that the Giants want Abreu to win that final infield spot and that it was only his early injury that moved Wilson up the ladder. Abreu is back now so it would seem Valdez will have a harder time winning that spot unless Tony gets hurt again. Rog -- Right on the money. Tanaka would seem to rank behind both of them, yet the last I looked, he had the most at bats of any Giants player this spring. The Giants may be evaluating whether he is worth keeping in the minor leagues. I'm rooting for Bond ... Brock Bond ... but it appears his lack of positional flexibility is working strongy against him. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1607&page=1#9487#ixzz2NX5TQcev |
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 14, 2013 11:39:30 GMT -5
Randy -- I'm with Boagie about Gillespie and Gaudin. I don't see what's so special about either of these guys to warrant their spot on the team...unless they just want to cheap out on those spots. Rog -- Gaudin has pitched very well this spring. Gillespie got off to a nice start but has fallen back of late. "Cheaping out" wouldn't seem to be an issue, since the Giants have plenty of options that are inexpensive than these two guys or even more so. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1607&page=1#ixzz2NX6TxJ73 |
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Post by allenreed on Mar 14, 2013 12:35:40 GMT -5
Pence is likely not to return, mostly because of his age and situation. If he has a great year, the Giants wont want to pay the price for him that he will likely command on the open market...and if he stinks it up, they would prefer to give his spot to someone else. Allen- What happened with Theriot? I thought he did a good job last year. How come he didn't come back? |
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 14, 2013 12:40:13 GMT -5
I believe Theriot wanted to go somewhere he had at least a competitive chance of starting. After what Scutaro did last year, that wasn't going to happen here.
~Dood
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Post by allenreed on Mar 14, 2013 12:42:33 GMT -5
Has he signed with anyo. If so, I haven't heard about it.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 14, 2013 13:00:15 GMT -5
I remember reading an article a week or two ago (I want to say it was written by Jon Heyman) saying the Rangers, Indians and Phillies have expressed interest in Ryan but that Therot's insistence of more guaranteed playing time has held up a deal to this point. The article said even the Giants might want him back if he decides he doesnt mind being primarily a backup.
~Dood
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 14, 2013 21:03:34 GMT -5
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