Athletic?

[klaiggeb]

Here's my question: at the end of the season last year FZ was adamant about getting more athletic.

But did we?

From reports I am reading our infield defense is ranked at the bottom in terms of range.

Since we couldn't/didn't make a big FA splash, I'm not unhappy at what he did, getting Conforto, Hanniger and others.

But are we more athletic?

I would contend that at best, it's a push; that we are maybe only slightly better than last year, and that coming in LF and at 1B with Wade there vs RHP, over Belt and Flores

[Islandboagie]

I'm not optimistic about our defense and base running in the slightest.

[klaiggeb]

Feb 2, 2023 15:48:08 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

I'm not optimistic about our defense and base running in the slightest.

yeah. I have to agree.

Our offense may have improved, and also the defense in LF with Pederson, who was ranked the WORST LF in baseball, now the DH.

Crawford with make all the routine plays, but great 1B defense is gone.

Wade and Flores will be lucky just to be average.

And Villar, who seems to have a decent back, has not shown me squat with his hands nor his range.

We'll see...

[reedonly]

The net result on defense is going to be worse. The Giants were one of the teams that benefitted the most from the defensive shifts and that edge will be taken away. The signing of Roberto Perez might help but I am not happy with the defense up the middle, particularly if Yaz is playing CF. There was a free agent available earlier in the year that could have helped the team defense but the Giants' FO was flagellating over Corea. That FA was Duggar.

[Islandboagie]

Duggar was too inconsistent with the bat, and he wasn't good enough defensively to make up for it. He was the best defensive CF we had, but that bar was set pretty low.

[reedonly]

Boly: And Villar, who seems to have a decent back, has not shown me squat with his hands nor his range.

We'll see...

The long term guy is Schmitt

[klaiggeb]

Feb 3, 2023 10:34:25 GMT -5 reedonly said:

The net result on defense is going to be worse. The Giants were one of the teams that benefitted the most from the defensive shifts and that edge will be taken away. The signing of Roberto Perez might help but I am not happy with the defense up the middle, particularly if Yaz is playing CF. There was a free agent available earlier in the year that could have helped the team defense but the Giants' FO was flagellating over Corea. That FA was Duggar.

FZ wanted to make a splash to put fannies in seats.

Period.

No matter what he said, he had to know that NO WAY was Judge coming her. No way at all.

I said before and I'll say it again: MY target would have been Nimmo. Lead off guy, and very good CF.

But FZ things he's smarter than everyone on the planet so he did it his way... and the team and the fans got hosed.

W/Nimmo in CF, I would have still pursued Hanniger and Conforto, which would have made Yaz a back up, which is really all he's been good for these last 2 years, or I would have moved him.

I did like the pursuit of a SS. Seems I was wrong about Danby, but going after a SS was smart.

But now we're all left KNOWING what's going to happen; knowing balls that could have been caught will be going through as hits.

I really do NOT know what management sees with FZ.

He's had his chance, had his run, and, IMHO, blew it.

[klaiggeb]

Feb 3, 2023 14:52:54 GMT -5 reedonly said:

Boly: And Villar, who seems to have a decent back, has not shown me squat with his hands nor his range.

We'll see...

The long term guy is Schmitt

You keep saying that, Reed, but I don't know what to think.

He hit.293 at AAA, which is okay...and he had 23 HRs and a OBP. But he wiffed 120 times in 468 at bats!

That's terrible!

We have enough guys down in the minors struggling to make contact to make a blind scout sick.

I respect and trust you opinion. You know more about him than I do, that's for sure!

Maybe this year he figures things out.

That would be nice.

[reedonly]

I heard Wotus on the radio today and the guys he likes are Harrison and Schmitt. Wotus mentioned that Schmitt has good baseball instincts and another blog mentioned that Schmitt has a similar body type to Matt Chapman and the development of the two in college were also very comparable. Chapman developed his power in the pros and Schmitt is starting to do the same. Schmitt has been quietly moving up the chain and will open at Sac this season.

Zaidi seems to have like Villar enough for them to have let go of Longoria. Villar's OPS in September was .967 and during the offseason, he has been doing work at third with coaches on lateral movement. Even though Villar has options and Davis and Flores are in the mix, Villar still gets first crack at it. I think he will be ready to go in April.

[reedonly]

Feb 3, 2023 18:04:50 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

Feb 3, 2023 10:34:25 GMT -5 reedonly said:

The net result on defense is going to be worse. The Giants were one of the teams that benefitted the most from the defensive shifts and that edge will be taken away. The signing of Roberto Perez might help but I am not happy with the defense up the middle, particularly if Yaz is playing CF. There was a free agent available earlier in the year that could have helped the team defense but the Giants' FO was flagellating over Corea. That FA was Duggar.

FZ wanted to make a splash to put fannies in seats.

Period.

No matter what he said, he had to know that NO WAY was Judge coming her. No way at all.

I said before and I'll say it again: MY target would have been Nimmo. Lead off guy, and very good CF.

But FZ things he's smarter than everyone on the planet so he did it his way... and the team and the fans got hosed.

W/Nimmo in CF, I would have still pursued Hanniger and Conforto, which would have made Yaz a back up, which is really all he's been good for these last 2 years, or I would have moved him.

I did like the pursuit of a SS. Seems I was wrong about Danby, but going after a SS was smart.

But now we're all left KNOWING what's going to happen; knowing balls that could have been caught will be going through as hits.

I really do NOT know what management sees with FZ.

He's had his chance, had his run, and, IMHO, blew it.

Ownership was the group that wanted the big name FA.  We know that FZ does not roll with big name FAs because it does not jibe with his overall strategy.  I wanted the SS, but they also needed to get more athletic up the middle.  Basically, my wish list was pitching and defense. 

Nimmo would have been an improvement over Yaz/Slater but his price ended up to be $162mm/8 years.  I"m not sure if Nimmo is going to be worth $100 million more than whoever they put out there.  Also, we should not expect much help from the 2023 FA class because the best outfielders available are going to be Bellinger, Joc, and Conforto.  Hopefully, one of Ramos, Brown, or Matos gets it going or else CF will be a problem spot for years. 

[reedonly]

Boly: No matter what he said, he had to know that NO WAY was Judge coming her. No way at all.

Apparently, Judge was pretty good at playing people to get that contract offer from the Yankees. Rich Aurilea and Logan Webb felt Judge was sincere in wanting to come to San Francisco and were pretty upset (butt-hurt) when he went back to New York.

[klaiggeb]

Feb 5, 2023 12:03:49 GMT -5 reedonly said:

Boly: No matter what he said, he had to know that NO WAY was Judge coming her. No way at all.

Apparently, Judge was pretty good at playing people to get that contract offer from the Yankees. Rich Aurilea and Logan Webb felt Judge was sincere in wanting to come to San Francisco and were pretty upset (butt-hurt) when he went back to New York.

And management fell for it. That's sad.

[Islandboagie]

They probably knew the probability of Judge returning to the Yankees but still put out an offer. I mean, I knew the probability, and I'd hope they are at least as aware as someone like me who's looking from the outside in. The Yankees are one of the most powerful organizations in baseball, they know if they give out an offer similar to other teams that they have the advantage. When they are dealing with free agents they want, it's simple, they tell them to shop around, but give us an opportunity to meet that offer in the end. More times than not, they do.

[reedonly]

Precisely the approach they should have asked for. Allow the Giants the opportunity to match or exceed the final offer.

[Islandboagie]

The Giants simply don't have as deep pockets as the Yankees. I think they gave a offer they felt was reasonable for someone like Judge and didn't want to get into a bidding war with the Yankees.

[klaiggeb]

Feb 6, 2023 10:36:57 GMT -5 Islandboagie said:

They probably knew the probability of Judge returning to the Yankees but still put out an offer. I mean, I knew the probability, and I'd hope they are at least as aware as someone like me who's looking from the outside in. The Yankees are one of the most powerful organizations in baseball, they know if they give out an offer similar to other teams that they have the advantage. When they are dealing with free agents they want, it's simple, they tell them to shop around, but give us an opportunity to meet that offer in the end. More times than not, they do.

Thought I didn't want to pay ANY player what Judge was asking, I do understand at least making an offer.

What ticked me off, and still does, is that it "seems" like they put all of their proverbial eggs in Aaron's basket.

NOT smart, and IMHO, caused them to miss out on Nimo and maybe others.

I understand what he signed for, but it was still considerably less than Judge, AND would have given us the CF and lead off guy we desperately need.

[reedonly]

Krukow pointed out this morning that out of all teams in mlb, the Giants ranked 8th in spending.

[klaiggeb]

Feb 7, 2023 11:40:04 GMT -5 reedonly said:

Krukow pointed out this morning that out of all teams in mlb, the Giants ranked 8th in spending.

With all of the FA's we've signed, I don't doubt that one bit.

But note the title of this thread; Athletic?

FZ SAID, and he said it more than once during last season; and I paraphrase: "We HAVE to get more athletic next season."

So yes, he spent a lot, but NO he did NOT address what HE SAID was the club's most pressing need.

From my perspective he made ONE attempt to fulfill that; Correa.

But even if we had signed that ONE player, the need to get more athletic would still be there.

Hey! I like the signings of Conforto and Hanniger. I really do!

But...BUT, once again I feel like he fed us rhetoric in one direction, and then went in another.

Of course I realize the market, to some extent, dictates what management can and can't do. I get that.

But don't tell everyone you're doing one thing... going one way, and then go another.

Not cricket. Not cricket at all, and is one of the many reasons I'd like to see him gone after this season.

[reedonly]

I'm not sure if FZ realized it or not but outside of the top tier free agents, most of the rest were older, less athletic guys. For example, at first base, Rizzo was the best one available, then the rest were older guys like Gurreiel, Abreau or Hosmer. Once Rizzo was signed, one of the best remaining was Belt, which shows what kind of a dropoff there was after the top tier. Looking at the 2022-2023 free agent class, moat of the available players would not help much in terms of athleticism (see Bellinger, the shortstops, Benintendi, Nimmo or Kiermeyer as the few examples of free agent athleticism). It might imply that the "younger, more athletic" players will have to come from the farm.

To be honest, the best solution would be for the minor leaguers to seize the positions instead of having to rely on guys like Piscotty. Villar dominated AAA and earned the promotion and Schmitt is advancing, also. Hopefully, one or two others will make a case for themselves in camp.

[reedonly]

Boly: I feel like he fed us rhetoric in one direction, and then went in another.

After watching him for four years, it is what he does.

[klaiggeb]

And it's gotten old. Sooner or later those above him must see through the nonsense. Or maybe not. Maybe they're interbuying the nonsense also.

[reedonly]

San Jose Mercury recently ran an article about FZ's four stated goals for the offseason.

1.  Get SS help so that Crawford doesn't have to play so many games at SS.  They did not get one of the big name SS but the candidates to help Crawford are going to be Diaz and Walton.  Failed

2.  Improve OF defense.  The Mercury said it was a pass but this was before Conforto coming to camp with lingering shoulder issues and is going to start ST as DH.  Also, YAz and Slater still will play CF.  Probably failed. 

3.  Improve bullpen to lessen load on Doval.  Passed.

4.  Improve athleticism, particularly up the middle.  Same as last year.  Failed. 

Some prognosticators have the Giants finishing about three games behind the Dodgers and Padres but I think that is optimistic.  81-81 seems like a reasonable estimate.  One area that may be imrpoved is that the full spring training might cause less of those soft tissue injuries of the last three seasons but three players have reported injuries already:  Luciano (stress reaction in back), Conforto, and Waites (side muscle).  Three guys who spent a lot of time on the IL last year are gone (Belt, Longoria, and LaStella).  I have not heard what is happening with deSclafani but I think that at best, he's the #5 starter. 

[Islandboagie]

Definite fail on outfield defense, last year we had Duggar and overall it was still bad. Haniger has a good arm, but his range is limited.

[reedonly]

If Conforto is unavailable, it will be Joc in left

[klaiggeb]

Feb 19, 2023 14:14:45 GMT -5 reedonly said:

If Conforto is unavailable, it will be Joc in left

Isn't that a pleasant thought!

Actually, we have better options that sticking Joc out there. I'd rather see Slater play against RHP than kill the defense with Joc out there.

And, of course, kapler has "PROMISED" we'll have outfielders in the outfield.

Oh.

Wait.

Joc is an outfielder.

Not a good one, but still an outfielder.

Actually, all sarcasm aside, I'm hoping that, from what I've read, he's gotten himself into better shape than last season.

The guy ISN'T old, and he's gone from a pretty good defender in CF, to a slug in the OF; a left handed version of Burrell.

To me, that's sad, that he'd let himself go like that.

[reedonly]

I've heard enough players come into camp in the "best shape of their Life" that I'm skeptical. Joc supposedly had to overhaul his diet so I expect some improvement but I don't think he can go back to being an adequate defender in CF any longer.

[klaiggeb]

Feb 20, 2023 11:18:51 GMT -5 reedonly said:

I've heard enough players come into camp in the "best shape of their Life" that I'm skeptical. Joc supposedly had to overhaul his diet so I expect some improvement but I don't think he can go back to being an adequate defender in CF any longer.

Totally agree!

Better, but he'll never be even close to what he was.

Age will see to that.

[reedonly]

Boly: I really do NOT know what management sees with FZ.

One thing that FZ does well is speak. He is very articulate and comes across as a smart guy when he talks. I feel this is why ownership likes him. We have seen that he says things people like to hear but does not necessarily follow through with his action plans.

[klaiggeb]

I think you mailed him perfectly!

He has a slick tongue, So select that people believe him even when hes saying nothing.

[reedonly]

Feb 3, 2023 18:09:49 GMT -5 klaiggeb said:

Feb 3, 2023 14:52:54 GMT -5 reedonly said:

Boly: And Villar, who seems to have a decent back, has not shown me squat with his hands nor his range.

We'll see...

The long term guy is Schmitt

You keep saying that, Reed, but I don't know what to think.

He hit.293 at AAA, which is okay...and he had 23 HRs and a OBP. But he wiffed 120 times in 468 at bats!

That's terrible!

We have enough guys down in the minors struggling to make contact to make a blind scout sick.

I respect and trust you opinion. You know more about him than I do, that's for sure!

Maybe this year he figures things out.

That would be nice.

For Schmitt, the last step is if he can hit major league pitching otherwise he's signed off on pretty much everything else.