rog
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Post by rog on May 10, 2019 2:11:35 GMT -5
And the Sharks win their series with the Colorado Avalanche when a goal scored by the Avalanche is taken off the board.
I was curious how you felt when Nathan MacKinnon went down, Randy?
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on May 10, 2019 2:34:18 GMT -5
I tried...but I don't speak Sabremetric-ese so it's a lost cause.
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on May 10, 2019 2:48:24 GMT -5
And the Sharks win their series with the Colorado Avalanche when a goal scored by the Avalanche is taken off the board.
I was curious how you felt when Nathan MacKinnon went down, Randy?
Dood - I'm not going to feel sorry for them not one bit. Our guys have been dropping like flies and still the team was able to suck it up. I will say my shoulder ached when I saw him dragging his off the ice...bad rotator cuff memories. As far as the disallowed goal, Landeskog lolligagged it off the ice...he's lucky the puck didn't hit him and it would have been a Sharks PP. His teammates didn't help him much either...they could have yelled at him to hustle. But I couldn't help but notice how when something like that happens to the other team, the Network boys go on and on about how lucky the Sharks are but when Burns and Labanc got shafted, they totally ignore it as if it never happened...oh well.
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rog
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Post by rog on May 10, 2019 12:43:24 GMT -5
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rog
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Post by rog on May 10, 2019 13:08:28 GMT -5
I'm not going to feel sorry for them not one bit. Rog -- The prudent side of me was clearly aware that the Avalanche's losing it's big superstar significantly increased the Sharks' chances of winning; but the human side of me despaired that such a great player had gotten seriously injured (in just about any other sport, he would have been out for quite a while. I thought it was a separated shoulder.) The difference may have been that Joe Pavelski, who had missed the entire series, was able to make a successful return, while MacKinnon's play was considerably diminished by his injury. I just LOVE Joe, and, man, he's been through huge trials this postseason. Life's a little tough when you start of the postseason scoring with your jaw, and then find out that isn't even the worst injury you'll suffer. Hockey players are simply an incredibly tough breed. There are reasons to consider the sport the best of them all, although one can of course make such an argument for most sports. But hockey is a very special sport for its mix of speed, skill, stamina and toughness in addition to having perhaps the most action of any of the major sports. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5237/thing-rog-agree-on?page=3#ixzz5nXqyPIrV
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rog
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Post by rog on May 10, 2019 13:18:37 GMT -5
Neither Landeskog nor the Avalanche coach alibied about the call, showing their intelligence and professionalism. If that call had been made against the Sharks, you would likely be continuing your conspiracy theory. Facts have never seemed to particularly get in your way.
As for his being lucky the puck didn't hit him, the puck was on the other side of the ice. Might it make sense for teams to post a coach by the door to ensure it's open at the right times?
Hey, I'm not one to talk. I lost track of the time and changed our peewee team's defensive pairing seconds before the period ended -- only to have them get caught and have the other team score a breakaway goal just before time ran out. Very stupid mistake on my part. It was a ton of fun running the D-pairings though. I think I did fine with the responsibility -- except for that one glaring error!
As I think of it, I've had a ton of fun with sports. I've played quite a bit of it, refereed and umpired it a ton, written about it and even coached. And I enjoyed almost every single minute -- even when crowds were booing me!
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on May 10, 2019 13:40:07 GMT -5
So what is your favorite insult you've heard from fans?
My personal favorite is "hey ref, Foot Locker called, you're late for your shift."
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rog
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Post by rog on May 10, 2019 15:34:55 GMT -5
One I heard at a Warriors game was, "Hey, ref, if you had one more good eye, you'd be a cyclops!" My favorite lines that I used were: . When a coach called an early time out after questioning almost every call and said to me, "Hey, ref, you've got to start getting some of these calls right," I calmly gave him the sign of the "T," and quietly said to him, "I got THAT one right." Didn't hear from his the rest of the game. I went out of my way not to embarass him and to let him know I wasn't assessing the technical out of rage. I believe quiet was the way to make that point, and it seemed to work marvelously. . In a rec league game when a player said to me about an opponent being in the key too long, "He's camping in there," I replied, "When he lights a fire, I've got him!" . I had a player who had played professionally jump on me for not calling a foul on a play on which he scored. At the next time out, I approached him and said, "You were right. The guy fouled you. But if I call him for the foul, I have to waive off your basket and give you the ball back out of bounds." This was in a rec league game. He not only understood, it was as if we became fast friends, and one his way out of the gym, he stopped to introduce his girlfriend to me as if we were long-lost buddies. . One of the toughest situations was the guy who sat on the visitors' side, pretty much by himself and close to the court. When he lashed out at my call, what he was really seeking was attention. At the next time out, I positioned myself near him and start up a casual conversation about the game, as if I had no idea he was the one who had been yelling at me. He got the attention he wanted, and suddenly I was a person, not a symbol of the structure that was disempowering him, and he no longer had a need to lash out at his new-found friend. . One time in a high school playoff game, it seemed every single call went against the home team, who was the top seed playing against the bottom seed. That kept the game close. It finally got so one-sided that I went to the home coach and told her I realized that every single close call seemed to be going against her team and assured her that at some point things would even out. Soon after that, they did. The coach, a former St. Mary's College player, was handling the situation pretty well, but I MYSELF was feeling bad. Coincidentally, the opposing coach in that game was the son of former White Sox and A's announcer Red Rush. He had a horrible reputation with the refs for being really tough on us, but I happened to run into him at a restaurant when I was going to a Sharks game, and he was having dinner before going to watch his former high school star (not the coach I mentioned above) play for St. Mary's. I realized how much he cared for his players and felt more comfortable around him in the future. Surprisingly, I ran into him and his kids about 25 miles away when I took my son to watch the Heath Ledger Batman movie. Just talked to him a second that time, but I was surprised to run into him so far away. My son and I had gone there because he wanted to watch IMAX. By the way, the best objection I had as an umpire came in a semi-pro game. The opposing team replaced their foxey, junk-throwing southpaw with a flame-throwing young righty. The fireman's first pitch zipped in in the 90's right at the knees on the outside corner. The batter backed out of the box and smiled deeply at me as if saying, "Hey, it's great to meet you." Clearly that's not what the smile meant, but I thought it was a fabulous way to let me know he thought the pitch was low or outside. I resisted the temptation to tell him it sounded like a strike. Another time a manager visited his pitcher at the mound, and when I went out to break up the conversation, it became clear part of the reason for his visit was so that when I came out, he could give me a piece of his mind. He said something to the effect that his pitcher was struggling, and I wasn't giving him the pitches on the black (which technically aren't strikes). I simply clapped my hands and said, "Let's play ball," and walked back behind the plate. What he had said was true. His pitcher WAS struggling, and I hadn't given him the pitches on the black. By the way, I'm not quite sure how a manager can tell from the dugout that a pitch is on the black. I found that in the thousands of games I officiated, I didn't have to throw out many players, managers or coaches. And if I had been even better, I probably would have found a way around some of the objections I did give out. When giving a technical foul or throwing someone out, I tried to do so calmly, so there would be no doubt I was doing it because the player, manager or coach had earned it, not because I was mad at him and simply getting my revenge. When it came to objections, if a coach could make his point in a humorous way, he could get away with a lot. This is a joke, and it didn't happen to me, but I would have gotten a good laugh if it had: The coach told the ref he was the second-best ref he'd seen all season. The ref was impressed with the compliment, but naturally asked which guy the coach thought was the best. The response? "All the other guys are tied for #1." I personally believe that major league umpires would be better off not being as confrontational (which they don't seem to be as much anymore), but I've been told by a former umpire that it was important that the ump establish his control, that otherwise the players and managers would walk over him. When I first started officiating, I felt that way, but as I got more experienced, I realized that the best way to try to defuse a situation was to use humor. If that didn't work, of course, one had to move on to a sterner approach. And sometimes things were simply too explosive at the time to try humor out. But sometimes humor could work out well later, after the heat of the moment. I never told a manager, player or coach he was wrong. Even if he were wrong, I would have been wrong to point it out. I simply gave him time to say what he believed he had seen, told him what I had seen, gave him time for a quick rebuttal and then said either that we should play ball, or that if it happened the way he saw it, I simply missed it. I wish I had never, ever missed a call, but like every other official, of course I missed a few. Tried like heck not to, but sadly I found that no matter how good I became, I was still human.
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on May 10, 2019 15:58:17 GMT -5
A cool story I heard Red Cashion tell--Mr. First Doowwwwwnn--was when he did a Raiders game and John Madden kept saying "you stink Red, you really STINK!" Finally Cashion threw a flag on Madden for Unsportsmanlike Conduct and after he marched off the 15 yard penalty, he yelled back at Madden, "how do I smell from over here, John?"
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on May 10, 2019 16:30:40 GMT -5
Another beauty was when I was in high school and after baseball practice, the team watched our soccer team play our rival in a league playoff game. It was a tight game and we had a great chance in the box and our guy got hauled down but the ref decided not to call a penalty. The team bench erupted and every reserve player, including one not playing due to a broken leg AND the school priest got red-carded. The baseball team broke into a loud chant of ATTICA ATTICA and we might have got booted too if we weren't already behind a chain link fence from the soccer field.
As it happened, the same ref that red-carded our soccer team was calling balls and strikes in one of my starts later that season and I mentioned to the ump before the game that I recognized him...I seem to recall getting a pretty decent zone that day.
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rog
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Post by rog on May 10, 2019 18:52:06 GMT -5
A cool story I heard Red Cashion tell--Mr. First Doowwwwwnn--was when he did a Raiders game and John Madden kept saying "you stink Red, you really STINK!" Finally Cashion threw a flag on Madden for Unsportsmanlike Conduct and after he marched off the 15 yard penalty, he yelled back at Madden, "how do I smell from over here, John?" Rog -- That's a really good one, Randy. I loved it when Red called the unnecessary roughness penalty on the guy who was "really givin' him the business down there." Hank Stramm told a young referee that NFL stood for "Not For Long." I liked the old-time umpire who told the guy who flipped his bat up in the air that "If that bat comes down, you're gone." A player used a word from the dugout he shouldn't have used, and I walked over and told him "You're lucky I can see better than I can hear." How's THAT for cutting the guy a break? When I worked that particular tournament, I met a guy -- Dale Eidson -- who told me to look for the article on him in "Referee Magazine." Dale had been on the verge of a place kicking tryout with the Raiders years ago when on the Fourth of July he had a firework explode as he was working on it, tragically cutting off both legs and eliminating much of a hand. Dale eventually became an umpire, and one who had very good judgment. His lack of mobility made it tough for him to work the bases, but I only saw a guy run into him once, and I don't believe it affected the play. I heard from a friend recently that Dale has passed away. You are quite familiar with the De La Salle football program, Randy, and Dale's brother Terry has been the top assistant coach there for decades. I don't know if you got to see the movie about the De La Salle football program "When the Game Stands Tall," but I really enjoyed it myself. De La Salle was of course accused of recruiting, but even though the program was in a shambles when coach Bob Ladouceur took it over, they became so successful -- more than doubling the previous national high school record for consecutive victories -- that they didn't HAVE to recruit. Top players simply wanted to play there. The De La Salle basketball program has also produced multiple state champions, and I got to know their long-time head coach Frank Allocco under somewhat different circumstances a year or two before he began coaching high school ball. Frank was playing in a rec league in Antioch when I called him for his third foul in the first half, causing him to have to sit out the rest of the half. Frank really gave me a mouthful, and I wasn't experienced enough to handle the situation as assertively as I should have. Instead, I decided that if Frank gave me trouble one more time down the sidelines, I was going to kick him out. But Frank saved me from my poor handling of the situation by silencing himself, and at halftime, he came over to me and apologized. It was the final game of the night, and we ran into each other heading out of the gym. I began talking to him, found out he had played both football and basketball at Notre Dame, and was coaching CYO basketball. He knew so much basketball and was so fascinating to talk to that we spoke for perhaps 30 minutes in the cold by our cars. Within a year or two, he was named coach of Ygnacio Valley High, where he coached his son, and then he took Frankie to play for him at De La Salle when he was hired there. Frankie went on to play at St. Mary's and later became an assistant to his father at De La Salle. Frank applied for the St. Mary's job, but lost out on it to the Gaels' present coach, Randy Bennett, but after another decade or so of continued highly successful De La Salle coaching moved on as an assistant at the University of San Francisco. I believe he was assistant to Rex Walters, who is the son of a basketball referee I worked with many times. In fact, it was Rex's dad, who helped train me for the job I did going over films with the referees after the Cal basketball games back in the early 2000's. Rex was as first round NBA draft pick, but he mostly played overseas. I believe he his now an assistant to former Warriors coach Eric Musselman. Getting back to Alloco, Frank was a good friend of Joe Montana from their days together at Notre Dame, and two of Joe's sons played for Frank at De La Salle. Joe's quarterback son transferred to SoCal for his senior year of high school, where one of his wide receivers was the son of actor Will Smith. I officiated for 20 years, and even though I was 40 before I began and thus was too old to rise to anything approaching the Divison 1 college level, I loved my two decades as an official. I might have been best at baseball umpiring, but my favorite was refereeing basketball. To me, baseball -- being almost entirely black and out (safe or out, ball or strike) -- was pretty easy, while basketball, where one could call a foul virtually every time down the court, effectively ruining the flow of the game, was a constant challenge of divining the various shades of gray. My motto was to let them play as much as I could and still keep the game fair and safe. In basketball, while one has to call the hard fouls and the fouls that allow for an unfair advantage or disadvantage, the players, coaches and fans are a lot happier when the game develops a flow. In a fight or flight stress environment, the players become far less frustrated when they can keep running. Refereeing basketball was just a ton of fun -- even during the I'm happy to say fairly few times I got booed -- and working with the then Pac-10 refs at Cal was just fabulous, especially since two of them went on to the NBA. One thing I have noticed, Randy, is that while you keep saying there are important things I simply can't understand about baseball, your lack of umpiring or refereeing experience hasn't kept you silent on sports officiating. And of course when I say this may have been why an umpire or referee missed a call, it's viewed here as an excuse, although when I point out why a player may have missed a play, no one seems to mind as much. I have to say, it's a ton of fun watching a Giants game, since I watch it from the different perspectives of being a: . Giants fan . Baseball fan . Former umpire, and . As a fantasy baseball player. It's not at all odd to see me get at least four different takes on one play. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5237/thing-rog-agree-on?page=3#ixzz5nZB29HkG
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rog
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Post by rog on May 15, 2019 23:42:31 GMT -5
And the Sharks win another playoff game on a goal that cleary shouldn't have counted. Clearly the NHL doesn't want the Sharks to win.
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on May 16, 2019 0:51:21 GMT -5
The NHL was hamstrung by their own rules, which do not allow hand pass plays to be reviewed. Oh and I bet you didn't notice Marc Edward Vlasic getting high sticked about a minute before the game winning goal...or Perron's clear delay of game penalty that got missed...right before he scored two goals during the time he should have been in the penalty box.
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on May 16, 2019 1:03:30 GMT -5
Point is you can make a case for a call being missed on the ice. The Perron play was reviewed and STILL went against the Sharks when it was obvious to anyone not blind--even the biased broadcasters--that the puck was not deflected. When the league is not allowed by rule to review the play, that becomes a different matter. The Blues got away with many shenanigans in the game that should have gone the Sharks way that could have very well decided things before needing overtime.
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rog
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Post by rog on May 17, 2019 12:52:53 GMT -5
The point is that your conspiracy theory is lacking in support. Mistakes get made in BOTH directions. It's the nature of sports.
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sfgdood
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stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
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Post by sfgdood on May 17, 2019 13:31:36 GMT -5
Just because the media ONLY focuses on the calls going in the Sharks favor doesn't mean the Sharks aren't getting hosed. The anti-San Jose bias definitely extends to the media. They act like ALL calls favor the Sharks, which is an absolute joke. They hardly mention, if at all, when the Sharks get the shaft...but if an opponent does oh boy call the FBI! They act like the Sharks themselves made the rules about offsides and hand passes JUST to favor them in the playoffs. But when an Avs player lifts Meier's stick into his teammates face causing a bad high sticking call to disallow a Sharks goal, or if a Blues defenseman shoots a puck over the glass with no Shark near him, the broadcast team is like..."eh, oh well." And by the way BOTH of those plays were reviewed and the Sharks still got fucked over.
If you look at the balance of calls within a game and throughout a series, my theory is sound, especially if you look at more than just this year. You of course would never accept that referees and leagues are corrupt because you were a referee yourself. All I will say is that if there wasn't bias against the Sharks, they have been one of the UNluckiest teams in the history of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
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rog
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Post by rog on May 18, 2019 1:13:13 GMT -5
You of course would never accept that referees and leagues are corrupt because you were a referee yourself. Rog -- What does that have to do with it? Referees HAVE been corrupt. That saddens me greatly, as a fan and as a former referee. I don't accept that it HAS to be that way, but I accept that it happened. You rarely know what I think because you and I think a lot differently. You're more of a gut reaction guy, whereas I'm far more analytical. I'm not stating that as a judgment; I'm stating it as a look at our evaluation styles. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5237/thing-rog-agree-on?page=3#ixzz5oFo19fWC
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rog
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Post by rog on May 18, 2019 1:23:09 GMT -5
All I will say is that if there wasn't bias against the Sharks, they have been one of the UNluckiest teams in the history of the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Rog -- I think the Sharks HAVE been a very unlucky playoff team. They make them almost every season, and they have never been able to win it all. They've made the Stanley Cup Finals only once, when they lost to what was probably a better Pittsburgh Penguins team. Bill Guerin personifies to me the Sharks' lack of postseason luck. In 2007 they traded for him at the deadline, and he scored eight goals in 16 games, providing a significant spark. But he became injured at playoff time, and he was no longer effective for them. Two years later -- and two years older at age 38 -- he was traded to the Penguins, stayed healthy, and was a strong participant in their Stanley Cup win. Teemu Selanne is kind of a symbol too. The Hall of Famer whiffed in front of an open net, costing the Sharks one playoff series when they had a very strong team. The Sharks are likely one of the strongest franchises in any of the four major sports to never have won a championship. Hopefully that will change next month. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/5237/thing-rog-agree-on?page=3#ixzz5oFpL504h
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