Thank You Rog...

[rog]

Look at the pitcher batting 8th, it's been tried here and there, but it never really proved to be of any significant advantage.


Rog -- How would one go about proving that -- or disproving it?




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4956/thank-rog?page=2#ixzz5auJLIk94

[rog]

Was I close minded for not being all gung ho about the idea, or was I being realistic for basically seeing it for what it was?


Rog -- If you were open-minded to the idea and still are (since it hasn't been proven to be either successful or unsuccessful), then you weren't and aren't closed-minded for not being all gung ho about the idea.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4956/thank-rog?page=3#ixzz5auJcif7x

[rog]

Again, I think we're all fairly open to new ideas, but I think we'd like a little more proof, instead of just blindly drinking the punch.


Rog -- I agree that more proof is needed with regard to the opener. Probably quite a bit more proof. What I'm speaking against is closing one's mind to an idea that thus far in a brief trial has been successful.

Let me make this clear: I don't know if the opener will be successful or not. It's been successful thus far, but adjustments will continue to be made to it. Even if they weren't, the concept hasn't been tested in a big enough trial to know whether it will work long-term or not.

I'm simply asking the board to do what I'm doing -- recognizing the success thus far and keeping an open mind to the concept. It is quite possible that despite the early success, the concept will hit a rough spot, and baseball will simply reject it, whether the sample has been big enough or not.

But how does it make sense not to keep an open mind?




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4956/thank-rog?page=3#ixzz5auKDm94x

[rog]

You, Brian Kenny, and a lot of the mainstream geeks like to promote your own intelligence, the rest of us don't crave that.


Rog -- I can't speak for Brian, but I don't have to promote my intelligence. If I do so, it doesn't make me either more or less smart. Even in Brian's case, I see him using some self-deprecating humor. I think just as some of his co-workers and guests have (hopefully) learned from him, he has learned from them.

What I like to do is make solid statements on behalf of ideas, now or old. I like to research my opinions when they are challenged. Sometimes I learn that I was wrong. Either way I learn from the experience. I know more about Giants baseball and baseball in general than when I started.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4956/thank-rog?page=3#ixzz5auLjNOJ6

[rog]

They also disrespect managers like Bochy, just because he's old and white


Rog -- It is likely that the mainstream writers you are putting down will one day vote Bruce into the Hall of Fame, quite possibly despite a losing record.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4956/thank-rog?page=3#ixzz5auN35R40

[rog]

I realize you consider our viewpoints to be on the chopping block, but history has actually proven you wrong.


Rog -- How has history proven me wrong?




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4956/thank-rog?page=3#ixzz5auO0qR00

[rog]

We've always been here, since the days of batting helmets and designated hitters.



Rog -- Perhaps you meant since BEFORE the days of batting helmets and designated hitters. That's how long Boly, Don and I have been Giants fans.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4956/thank-rog?page=3#ixzz5auOKgnsD

[rog]

We continue to fight the use of aluminum bats and the DH.


Rog -- I'm definitely against aluminum bats. Pitchers and perhaps even infielders might get KILLED. As for the DH, I'm OK with it, but I think the two leagues should be aligned one way or the other. I actually look FORWARD to sacrifices, which would be greatly reduced if pitchers didn't hit.

Anyone want to guess which American League team had the most sacrifices? There is a tie in to the Giants. Anyone have any idea what that tie in is? Not surprisingly only two AL teams finished ahead of even one NL team in sacrifices.

I would like to know the logic behind so many bunts from the two AL teams. The World Champion Red Sox finished in a tie for 27th with seven sacrifices.

Sorry to do it again, Boagie, but have you seen the butcher-boy play where the Braves had the wheel play on, the hitter hit a ground ball up the middle, and the Braves still got a ground ball double play? Keep in mind that the shortstop was over halfway to third when the ball was struck, and the second baseman was likely moving toward first. Have you seen it? It is impressive and most likely unique.



Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4956/thank-rog?page=3#ixzz5auOizEj2

[rog]

We try to keep baseball pure, because it's the game we love.


Rog -- Do you realize how much EACH of the four major sports has changed in our lifetimes? I think Don may go back to the days of the center jump after made baskets. Boly and I go back to the days of two-way NFL players and as you mentioned, no mandatory batting helmets. Before goalie masks.




Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/4956/thank-rog?page=3#ixzz5auRUxPat

[rog]

Here is a question traditionalists might ask: Do we want the game to be played as it once was, or do we want the level of play to continue to rise? I LOVED the traditional game of my youth, but I realize two things:

. It had already changed a TON.

. It is played at a much higher level now.

[rog]

The game was likely played at a higher level during my youth than it had been during my father's. And almost certainly at a higher level during his youth than during his father's (the original Giants fan in the family and a minor league pitcher in the White Sox organization until he hurt his arm). It will almost certainly be played at a higher level during my grandson's youth than during my son's.

[sfgdood]

Here's an interesting research project. Go to the beginning of this thread, read Mordy's descrhiption of Rog, read Rog's response about his willingness to change. Then read Rog's last 4 or 5 posts on this same thread. Any evidence of change noticeable?

[holiday613]

Dec 27, 2018 16:02:10 GMT -5 sfgdood said:

Here's an interesting research project. Go to the beginning of this thread, read Mordy's descrhiption of Rog, read Rog's response about his willingness to change. Then read Rog's last 4 or 5 posts on this same thread. Any evidence of change noticeable?

Bingo!!!!

[rog]

Hey, I'm with you guys on this one. I understand what you're saying, and don't disagree. But you guys continue to be as unsubstantiated and stubborn as ever.

As an example, look at the reasons in the thread on Anibal Sanchez why I wish the Giants had signed him, and see if the reasons don't make a lot more sense than the reasons we should expect Madison Bumgarner to rebound. That certainly doesn't mean Anibal will and Madison won't this season. But there are distinct and demonstrated reasons for Sanchez. We're merely hoping for Madison. The only positive trend I can see for Madison is that he did increase the velocity on his fastball a bit as last season went on.

You guys not being willing to keep an open mind on the opener is balderdash. You guys apparewntly not being able to see how Andrelton Simmons has been clearly better defensively over his career than Brandon Crawford is blindness.

I don't mind when you guys disagree -- if you do so with valid reason. I liked Boly's comparison of how the Giants were reacting to their incompetence as compared to the way the LA Rams reacted a year and a half ago. But he seemed to have ignored how much more quickly the football free agency situation resolves itself than the baseball free agency situation. Almost two-thirds of the top 50 free agents remain unsigned, whereas after the same amount of time, almost all the football free agents had already re-signed. Part of the reason no doubt is that training camps open just a little over a month after football free agency, whereas baseball training camps don't open for two and a half months or more.

Boly's Rams comparison was a good one on its surface. But when one looked beneath the surface, he could see that there was a big difference in circumstances. He could also see that the Rams won three out of their four final games in 2016 after going 1-11. Even before free agency, the Rams had a fine quarterback in place. He simply needed the system to show his abilities, which I had begun to see three seasons before when he was a freshman at Cal.

The one that gets me the most though is that Boly's primary argument against the opener is that 1 + 6 doesn't equal 6 + 1. Then there is his argument, based on a sample many times to small to have validity, that Brandon Crawford is better on routine plays than Andrelton Simmons. The experts who have seen every play made by each player believe just the opposite. Their review of the close to 3000 routine plays made or not made by each player says that Brandon is more than half again as likely not to make the routine play as Simmons.

I don't mind disagreements. In fact, I welcome them. I learn more when they occur. But I do mind disagreements that aren't based on fact, analysis and logic. Where is the evidence that using the opener wears out the bullpen to the point where doing so may require as many as 15 pitchers? Where is the evidence that Andrelton Simmons boots more routine plays than Brandon Crawford?

I've likely examined both subjects more than everyone else here combined, and I can't find it.

As for Randy, if one takes the opposite stance Randy takes, he's likely to have a high batting average.

[sfgdood]

As for Randy, if one takes the opposite stance Randy takes, he's likely to have a high batting average.

Dood - depends on who the umpire is

[rog]

That was a good comeback, Randy!