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Post by Rog on Apr 1, 2015 12:26:34 GMT -5
With the possible exception of Hunter Pence, Matt Duffy might be the most optimistic player on the Giants.
“There's a positive in everything,” Duffy said. “If I'm in Triple-A, I’ll be getting at-bats and getting experience that will definitely help. Either way, I'm going to take it as an opportunity to improve and build on things to get better and help the team win games.”
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 1, 2015 14:18:53 GMT -5
Duffy is a classy guy. While I agree he would be getting more at-bats in Sacramento, his attitude here demonstrates the type of mental make up and work ethic he has. In my opinion that attitude is exactly what you want from your bench players. It takes a dedicated sort to be able to be ready at any moment to come into the game and execute whatever is asked of him.
3 out of 5 is great, 4 out of 6 would put ANY question of a dynasty to rest. At this point in Giants history, the legacy of this team, I take my best 25.
Duffy is ready, he proved it last season, he's proved it again this spring. I get the Susac decision, but Duffy deserves to get rewarded here, its undeniable.
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sfgdood
Long time member 
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Apr 1, 2015 14:41:53 GMT -5
Whenever I hear the phrase "the attitude" I think of Mike Damone on Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
As for Duffy, I can't help but recall all of you claiming "no substitute for experience" when touting Perez over Brown, and that experience was very slight. We all like Matt but where is there a place for him but the space on the bench where Hunter Pence used Gary Brown's head as a Conga drum? If he's going to just ride pine, it's best to play him every day in Sac. Maybe his bat is ready--although the sample size is too small to tell for sure--but I thought Buster Posey was ready to begin 2010 and guess what, it didn't hurt him or the team to give him more games in AAA. If there was an everyday spot for Matt on the Giants, that would be a different story.
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 1, 2015 15:06:39 GMT -5
Posey had a poor AFL in 2009, which led the Giants to believe he was tired and not quite ready to handle a starting job at the major league level. That's why they resigned Molina. Offensively Posey was ready, him getting regular at-bats was just so he kept sharp.
If Duffy had a guaranteed position waiting for him when he comes up, I might agree. But its likely if he does start in Sacramento, then gets called up he'll still likely be a bench player.
So the real question here is, does Duffy have more to learn? From his performance this spring, it would he doesn't. In fact, based on this spring, just about everyone BUT Duffy should be starting the season in Sacramento.
Anyways, that's just my opinion. And I'm pretty sure the opposite will happen, so the point is moot.
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Post by rxmeister on Apr 2, 2015 7:50:19 GMT -5
I actually think that Duffy will make the team and he'll be more than just a bench player. Considering there are lefties at second and SS and a third baseman that they're not married to, there's a potential for a lot of playing time for Duffy. That's the same reason it's an important position and not to be wasted on a player who only makes it because he's out of options. The key to me though is if they still like Arias. If they do, then he is the first infielder off the bench and they can afford to send Duffy down. IMO Duffy is better than Arias, but I don't know their thinking. They can even cut Arias and keep both, which is exactly what I'd do.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 2, 2015 11:23:36 GMT -5
Of all the arguments I've heard from both the giants, and others, Mark's argument makes THE most sense.
Add to that fact, that Panik hurt his ankle, and if I'M BOCHY and management? It's not even a question. It's a moot point.
Problem is, these decisions are USUALLY made from a financial/options basis. Adrianza and Arias have none.
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Apr 2, 2015 12:53:35 GMT -5
Panik's ankle was a minor twist. He was back yesterday. It's a non-factor
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 2, 2015 13:21:54 GMT -5
That's good to hear, Randy, Thanks!
boly
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Apr 2, 2015 13:33:14 GMT -5
Seriously though...there have been lots of guys to rake in March that never had much of a career. I like Matt but I think the love affair is a bit premature. I said before Spring that he needs to show it to me for an extended period above AA before I jump on the Duffman bandwagon. A little patience would behoove us all, I do believe. There is no place for him in the infield at the moment. Let him play everyday in Sac.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 2, 2015 15:49:20 GMT -5
and I agree with you, Randy.
I don't have a particular love affair for him, I'm simply commenting on what I saw last year, and what improvement I've already seen this year.
The kid doesn't try to be a power guy, or any other guy. From what I see, he's aware of what he can and can't do, and doesn't try to do more than that.
but, like you, I want to see him over an extended period, too.
So far, however, last year under BIG TIME pressure, and this pre season... frankly, I'm impressed with the kid's poise and maturity.
boly
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Post by Rog on Apr 3, 2015 20:17:12 GMT -5
Boagie -- Duffy is ready, he proved it last season, he's proved it again this spring. I get the Susac decision, but Duffy deserves to get rewarded here, its undeniable. Rog -- If both the Giants and River Cats are home, Matt could be only two hours away. If one of the infielders went down in the first month of the season, the Giants would be quite glad they kept Arias up and had Matt on reserve. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2778/attitude#ixzz3WIakVqW8 |
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Post by Rog on Apr 3, 2015 20:26:59 GMT -5
Mark -- The key to me though is if they still like Arias. If they do, then he is the first infielder off the bench and they can afford to send Duffy down. IMO Duffy is better than Arias, but I don't know their thinking. They can even cut Arias and keep both, which is exactly what I'd do. Rog -- Joaquin would almost certainly be the first infield option off the bench with the exception of first base. The Giants could likely trade Joaquin and his affordable contract. They would then be relying on two youngster, each of whom would likely benefit from more time in the minors. I'm sure the Giants would like for Matt to stay in the minors at least long enough so that he doesn't become a free agent until after the 2021 season. They sent out Tim Lincecum, Buster Posey and Madison Bumgarner perhaps with that as part of the reason, and it kept them from becoming free agent eligible until after the 2016 season, which likely aided them in negotiating long-term contracts with them. With Buster, they negotiated a "fair" contract, and with Madison, they hit a home run. Tim chose to play it year by year, and financially, he made out very well with that strategy. Things broke just about right for him. And believe it or not, if he rebounds with even a good season this year, he'll make a lot of money when he once again becomes free-agent eligible. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2778/attitude?page=1#ixzz3WIbih6I4 |
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Post by Rog on Apr 3, 2015 20:34:49 GMT -5
By the way, we shouldn't be surprised that roster decisions are made partly for financial reasons. We look at teams as a group of players and a manager, but in reality they're assets of a business.
Now, do I think the Giants should change their budget based on how quickly their franchise is appreciating? I do. And when they stop being competitive, that may happen -- if only to keep up with the teams with big media contracts.
As I've made clear, I've also said that they should be allowed to run their own business.
Then there's the other side of it. In a way sports owners have a kind of public trust. Running a sports team isn't quite like running another business. In a way, it's almost like owning a public utility. There is the community benefit to consider.
That's why I would like to see the Giants open up the purse strings. As I say, perhaps they will in the future. But let's not forget either that other teams would follow, and the overall price of free agents would rise.
The big media deals are already of the prices of free agents continuing to rise.
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 4, 2015 19:25:45 GMT -5
Rog -- If both the Giants and River Cats are home, Matt could be only two hours away. If one of the infielders went down in the first month of the season, the Giants would be quite glad they kept Arias up and had Matt on reserve.
Boagie- You could pretty much say that about anyone. Wouldn't be nice to have Joe Panik available if any of our infielders went down? Or Madison Bumgarner if any of our pitchers wound up on the shelf?
I want the Giants to be in a position to be able to win games late. Who do you want at-bat in a game winning situation, Duffy or Adrianza?
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Post by rxmeister on Apr 5, 2015 8:01:00 GMT -5
You guys might not have a "love affair" with Matt Duffy, but I sure do. (Don't tell my wife!) Randy you're dismissing AA ball, but to me that's the key spot for Giants prospects. San Jose and Fresno are hitters paradises, and our AA team is in a pitcher's league. When guys go there and rake it's probably the best indicator to the Giants that a kid can hit, and this kid can hit! After all this fuss about Joe Panik last year, I can even see Panik losing his job or getting into a platoon situation because of the talent of young Matt Duffy. I'm excited about him. I love Panik too, but to me it's split on who is the better player.
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 5, 2015 16:34:31 GMT -5
I agree, Mark. If you can hit well at the AA level, be effective off the bench at the major league level especially in post-season play, what more is there to learn really?
Matt Duffy did all of this. In fact he didn't just hit well in AA, he tore it up.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Apr 5, 2015 17:29:01 GMT -5
It seems to me you all have different standards for different players. Oh well, you got your wish...we shall see what transpires
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Post by rxmeister on Apr 6, 2015 10:17:54 GMT -5
Dood, I'm sure that last comment is a Gary Brown reference. Check out their AA numbers because Duffy was better by a considerable amount.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Apr 6, 2015 11:52:33 GMT -5
Not talking about any one player specifically. In general, if you like a guy you will want him to get an easier pass to the big club. If not you will expect him to stay longer in the minors.
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 6, 2015 14:05:16 GMT -5
Normally I go for the safe route. Let the experienced player break camp with the big club, have the young prospect get more time in the minors.
Recently I've taken this route with Molina/Posey in 2010, and Ishikawa/Belt in 2011. The Giants agreed with me on Molina/Posey, disagreed with me on Ishikawa/Belt. The Molina/Posey situation turned out perfectly, Ishikawa/Belt not so much. Posey was the RoY and Belt was sent back down a month later. I don't want to toot my own horn, but I've had a favorable record in that regard.
I pushed for Crawford and Gillespie to get their shot, Crawford got his shot and became a solid shortstop, Gillespie didn't get his chance with the Giants, instead he went to the Whitesox and became a solid major leaguer. Again, I've favored pretty well in my judging of players.
I'm right there with you on Brown, Randy. I think it was a mistake to let him go. I like Bochy and Sabean, but I think they've made a few mistakes roster-wise.
I think Darren Ford should have been given more of an opportunity to stick. He has a .375 career on base % and Billy Hamilton-type speed. Of course, that's a small sample (14 at-bats.) But he deserved a chance at proving he can or can't hit at the major league level.
I was right there with Don on Jason Ellison. There have been many players throughout the years I believe deserved a better shot.
It's not a matter of liking Matt Duffy or disliking Adrianza. When Duffy came up I only knew his AA numbers. I was intrigued, but I hadn't formed an opinion of him. Then I saw him play. If you think I like him now, you're absolutely correct. I like everything I see. But that's not some blind interest in him, I like him because he's a scrappy player who has demonstrated that he's ready to play at the big league level.
Why are you trying to shame people who like him? "You got what you wanted"...seriously? I think everyone should WANT the Giants to win, and I think it's pretty obvious Duffy gives them a better chance to do just that.
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Apr 6, 2015 15:39:41 GMT -5
It's not a matter of liking Matt Duffy or disliking Adrianza. When Duffy came up I only knew his AA numbers. I was intrigued, but I hadn't formed an opinion of him. Then I saw him play. If you think I like him now, you're absolutely correct. I like everything I see. But that's not some blind interest in him, I like him because he's a scrappy player who has demonstrated that he's ready to play at the big league level.
Dood - my point all along is Matt has ZERO experience as a full time player above the AA level. He has minimal experience as a bench player in the big leagues. Not enough, IMO, to just eject Adrianza, who I have seen more than anyone else here (of course nobody trusts my judgment here, but still, it's true). As you should know if you've paid attention to my posting is that I believe IF Duffy was to stick, then it should have been Arias, whose career numbers are a pathetic .269/.298/.652 with just 6 career HRs and 91 career RBI, that should have gotten the heave ho. But I still wanted Duffy to get meaningful AAA experience on an everyday basis before being "promoted" to our bench. It's not like he's a can't miss bonus baby. His numbers aren't as good as Belt put up in the Minors before Brandon crashed and burned as a rookie.
Why are you trying to shame people who like him? "You got what you wanted"...seriously? I think everyone should WANT the Giants to win, and I think it's pretty obvious Duffy gives them a better chance to do just that.
Dood - the only person that can shame that stance is Duffy himself if he doesn't hit. "Obvious" is it? That is a bold yet safe prediction because it cannot be disproved, even if the Giants start losing. He's just a bench player, after all. Maybe if he went to Sac first, he would be more ready to make a significant impact later in the season.
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 14, 2015 9:42:06 GMT -5
I, too, like Duffy. Each at bat I see, I see a guy who while learning how to hit major league pitching... knows how to handle the bat.
Not really a 3Bman...he'll do okay there. IMHO, better with the glove than Bill Mueller was, at will be at least bill's equal as a hitter.
But he's not a SS. His hands are too hard for that position.
boly
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Post by Rog on Apr 14, 2015 20:23:09 GMT -5
Mark -- I love Panik too, but to me it's split on who is the better player. Rog -- I think Joe will have a little sophomore slump (nothing serious, but perhaps enough that he should move down in the order), but that he is the better between himself and Matt Duffy. Joe makes more contact and is a better fielder. That doesn't mean I don't like Matt. I do. From the beginning of his season last year at Richmond, he's been a very nice surprise. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2778/attitude#ixzz3XKw1e2Dv |
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Post by Rog on Apr 14, 2015 20:31:18 GMT -5
Mark -- Dood, I'm sure that last comment is a Gary Brown reference. Check out their AA numbers because Duffy was better by a considerable amount. Rog -- Every season since his excellent 2011 season in San Jose Gary has gotten off to a slow start and not rebounded enough to have a good year. That he has started so slowly each time he was promoted makes one question whether he would do well if he were suddenly called up to start in the major leagues. Not sure of the story for Gary this season, but he's 0 for 9 with three strikeouts. Hey, I like Gary and would love to see him do well -- even now that he's left the Giants. But that we (and others) got so excited by his excellent season in San Jose simply shows that we aren't scouts. We don't know what to look for, and Gary fooled us (and others). Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2778/attitude?page=1#ixzz3XKx14BC6 |
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Post by Rog on Apr 14, 2015 20:33:54 GMT -5
Randy -- In general, if you like a guy you will want him to get an easier pass to the big club. If not you will expect him to stay longer in the minors. Rog -- I try to go in good part by walk/strikeout/power ratios. Because of that, I like to see a guy EARN his way to the majors, although my standards may be a little different than others. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2778/attitude?page=1#ixzz3XKytrMHy |
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Post by Rog on Apr 14, 2015 20:37:49 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Apr 14, 2015 20:53:03 GMT -5
Boly -- IMHO, better with the glove than Bill Mueller was, at will be at least bill's equal as a hitter. Rog -- First of all, WELCOME BACK, Boly. I've got to disagree here on the Matt/Mueller comparison, although it's a good one in that they're somewhat similar players. I think Bill was a better defensive third baseman, although I'll give the nod to Matt at second and certainly shortstop. But when it comes to hitting, I think Bill has been given very short shrift. We were all excited by Joe Panik's hitting last season. Joe posted a .711 OPS. Know what Bill's was? I suspect you'd be pretty surprised to hear it was .797. Even if Matt reaches his ceiling, I don't expect a .797 career OPS. Bill Mueller was an above-average major league hitter. Matt might be. Mueller was actually pretty good. .297 career batting average -- very good. .373 OBP -- very good. .425 SLG -- good. Bill Mueller could hit. (Duane Kuiper echoes "He could hit.") Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2778/attitude?page=1#ixzz3XL0VnyGe |
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Post by klaiggeb on Apr 15, 2015 9:41:27 GMT -5
Rog:
I would argue that Duffy continues to prove, Rog, that he can hit, too.
Showed it again last night with a clutch-ish RBI.
He might not yet be at Mueller's level, but he could be. The kid has a lot of savy with very few ML at bats.
boly
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Post by Rog on Apr 15, 2015 11:33:18 GMT -5
Rog: I would argue that Duffy continues to prove, Rog, that he can hit, too. Showed it again last night with a clutch-ish RBI. He might not yet be at Mueller's level, but he could be. The kid has a lot of savy with very few ML at bats. Rog -- Duffy has looked quite poised at the plate. He seems to have a whip-quick bat. I like him as a hitter. More than anything else, my point was that Bill Mueller was underrated. If a guy has a near-.800 career OPS, he was a good hitter. The guy did win a batting title after all. He was well-suited to bat 2nd, having nice bat control (less than one strikeout per seven at bats) and being able to get on base at a very high clip for a #2 hitter (.373). Bill's nowhere close to being a Hall of Famer, here are some of the Hall of Famers we know who had an OPS around that of Mueller: Luke Appling .798 Richie Ashburn .778 Johnny Bench .817 Lou Boudreau .795 Craig Biggio .796 Andre Dawson .806 Carlton Fisk .797 Frankie Frisch .801 Ernie Lombardi .818 Paul Molitor .817 Eddie Murray .819 Pie Traynor .797 If Matt Duffy hits .291, I think we should be delighted. If he gets on base 37.3% of the time, I think we should be delighted. If he hits for a .425 slugging percentage, I think we should be delighted. Because then he'd be Bill Mueller. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2778/attitude#ixzz3XOYfwZ6g |
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Post by Islandboagie on Apr 15, 2015 11:48:31 GMT -5
I agree, Boly. Duffy battles pitchers as well as anyone on the team. I don't know if he'll win a batting title like Mueller, or have similar career numbers, but he does have a similar approach that would suggest that he's at least capable.
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