Post by Rog on Dec 15, 2014 10:36:26 GMT -5
Rog -- The Giants don't need bang so much as they need value.
---boly says---Rog, I don't mean "bang" as in a hitter, I mean after all their noise, which I now believe was mostly rhetoric to appease the fans, the bang I spoke of means noise followed by a BIG move.
Rog -- Of course.
Boly -- We didn't do that.
Rog -- But it wasn't for lack of trying or money.
Boly -- As for Shields, since he'd cost us, what, a # 1 draft pick? I don't see him here.
Rog -- The Giants' pursuit of James is a departure from their previous avoidance of giving up a draft pick by signing a player with qualifying offer. Teams are realizing their first round draft choices aren't worth as much as they thought they were, and the Giants already have an extra pick from losing Pablo.
Boly -- Wish I did, but management has shown me that THIS off season, they will rattle off some noise like they want to make a splash, but in the end, will go and do exactly what Randy has been saying: Go bargain basement, and on the cheap.
Rog -- I'm still waiting for more ideas on what the Giants should acquire with their $30 million available. When one criticizes, shouldn't he have a better solution in mind?
Let me tell you what HAS happened, what may have happened or be happening, and what might happen in the future.
As for what HAS happened, the Giants have lost their top two targets -- even though they were apparently to pay more or go longer with the contracts to Pablo Sandoval. Pablo just wanted to go, and particularly with the urging of close friend David Ortiz, he went to the Red Sox. Jon Lester likely went to the Cubs because they had the foresight to sign Lester's close friend Rick Dempsey as a special assistant. Don't know how much Dempsey makes, but I doubt it added much cost to the overall Lester deal.
These have been outlined here before, and appear likely to be factual.
As for what IS happening, it appears the Giants are in hard on the next-best pitcher who is expected to sign anytime soon -- James Shields. Shields, who used to have a devastating change up, has changed from a fastball/change up pitcher to fastball/cutter offerings. In game 5 of the World Series, he had the best swinging strike rate of any game in the playoffs. In a couple of other starts, he was leaving the cutter pretty much right down the middle.
Shields has been quite consistent the past four seasons, but he is about to turn 33, and his strikeout rate has declined the past two seasons. Age-wise, he is almost exactly two years older than Lester. Pitch count-wise and innings-wise, he's about a season and a half older. His walk rate, already good, made a huge improvement last season, but his hit rate has been worsening since 2011.
What can the Giants expect from Shields going forward? That's the (likely) $110 million question. I'm not particularly optimistic, not for $110 million or so.
The question they Giants want answered soon is whether they will sign Shields. They must feel they are strongly in the hunt, since we've seen no signings from them to eliminate some of the money needed to sign him.
If the Giants don't sign him soon, they will likely move on to Jake Peavy or even Ryan Vogelsong or someone else. That would likely give them the money to re-sign Sergio Romo and keep intact what was their strength last season -- the bullpen.
Brian Sabean has said that the Giants are more likely to trade for a third baseman than to sign one. It has been reported that the Giants definitely won't go four years for Chase Headley, and it seems likely that someone else will.
It is said that the Giants are looking for either a full time left fielder or a right-handed hitter to platoon with Gregor Blanco, who kept the Giants intact with his center field play in the absence of Angel Pagan. Alex Rios and Colby Rasmus are still available as full time outfielder outfielders, and the Giants have been linked with Chris Denorfia and some scrap heap types as potential left field platoon candidates.
The Giants have said they are eager to move ahead quickly, so I doubt we'll be hearing about Shields for much longer unless they sign him. Otherwise they might move on to something like bringing back Jake Peavy and Sergio Romo, and either signing Alex Rios, trading for a left fielder or signing a platoon partner for Gregor Blanco. They are looking to trade for a third baseman. I have seen Casey McGehee's name mentioned.
Boly -- Sad.
Rog -- Perhaps it is, and perhaps it isn't. We don't yet know what they are going to do. I keep emphasizing that the Giants are in the tough position of trying to replace with about $30 million per season five players who will likely sign for a combined $60 million or so. In other words, they have half the money for replacements as they are losing in talent. That's no easy chore.
I keep saying we should see what the Giants actually do before criticizing them. There are a couple of Korean players in play and a couple of Cubans, one of whom is said to have the potential of Yasiel Puig and the ability to play anywhere but shortstop.
Let's see what they do, and THEN critique. In the meantime, instead of lamenting what they HAVEN'T done, why not come up with ideas they they CAN pursue with their $30 million.
It's one thing to say the cup is half empty. It's another to have no idea how to fill it.
Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2616/question-answered#ixzz3Lymuk0FS
---boly says---Rog, I don't mean "bang" as in a hitter, I mean after all their noise, which I now believe was mostly rhetoric to appease the fans, the bang I spoke of means noise followed by a BIG move.
Rog -- Of course.
Boly -- We didn't do that.
Rog -- But it wasn't for lack of trying or money.
Boly -- As for Shields, since he'd cost us, what, a # 1 draft pick? I don't see him here.
Rog -- The Giants' pursuit of James is a departure from their previous avoidance of giving up a draft pick by signing a player with qualifying offer. Teams are realizing their first round draft choices aren't worth as much as they thought they were, and the Giants already have an extra pick from losing Pablo.
Boly -- Wish I did, but management has shown me that THIS off season, they will rattle off some noise like they want to make a splash, but in the end, will go and do exactly what Randy has been saying: Go bargain basement, and on the cheap.
Rog -- I'm still waiting for more ideas on what the Giants should acquire with their $30 million available. When one criticizes, shouldn't he have a better solution in mind?
Let me tell you what HAS happened, what may have happened or be happening, and what might happen in the future.
As for what HAS happened, the Giants have lost their top two targets -- even though they were apparently to pay more or go longer with the contracts to Pablo Sandoval. Pablo just wanted to go, and particularly with the urging of close friend David Ortiz, he went to the Red Sox. Jon Lester likely went to the Cubs because they had the foresight to sign Lester's close friend Rick Dempsey as a special assistant. Don't know how much Dempsey makes, but I doubt it added much cost to the overall Lester deal.
These have been outlined here before, and appear likely to be factual.
As for what IS happening, it appears the Giants are in hard on the next-best pitcher who is expected to sign anytime soon -- James Shields. Shields, who used to have a devastating change up, has changed from a fastball/change up pitcher to fastball/cutter offerings. In game 5 of the World Series, he had the best swinging strike rate of any game in the playoffs. In a couple of other starts, he was leaving the cutter pretty much right down the middle.
Shields has been quite consistent the past four seasons, but he is about to turn 33, and his strikeout rate has declined the past two seasons. Age-wise, he is almost exactly two years older than Lester. Pitch count-wise and innings-wise, he's about a season and a half older. His walk rate, already good, made a huge improvement last season, but his hit rate has been worsening since 2011.
What can the Giants expect from Shields going forward? That's the (likely) $110 million question. I'm not particularly optimistic, not for $110 million or so.
The question they Giants want answered soon is whether they will sign Shields. They must feel they are strongly in the hunt, since we've seen no signings from them to eliminate some of the money needed to sign him.
If the Giants don't sign him soon, they will likely move on to Jake Peavy or even Ryan Vogelsong or someone else. That would likely give them the money to re-sign Sergio Romo and keep intact what was their strength last season -- the bullpen.
Brian Sabean has said that the Giants are more likely to trade for a third baseman than to sign one. It has been reported that the Giants definitely won't go four years for Chase Headley, and it seems likely that someone else will.
It is said that the Giants are looking for either a full time left fielder or a right-handed hitter to platoon with Gregor Blanco, who kept the Giants intact with his center field play in the absence of Angel Pagan. Alex Rios and Colby Rasmus are still available as full time outfielder outfielders, and the Giants have been linked with Chris Denorfia and some scrap heap types as potential left field platoon candidates.
The Giants have said they are eager to move ahead quickly, so I doubt we'll be hearing about Shields for much longer unless they sign him. Otherwise they might move on to something like bringing back Jake Peavy and Sergio Romo, and either signing Alex Rios, trading for a left fielder or signing a platoon partner for Gregor Blanco. They are looking to trade for a third baseman. I have seen Casey McGehee's name mentioned.
Boly -- Sad.
Rog -- Perhaps it is, and perhaps it isn't. We don't yet know what they are going to do. I keep emphasizing that the Giants are in the tough position of trying to replace with about $30 million per season five players who will likely sign for a combined $60 million or so. In other words, they have half the money for replacements as they are losing in talent. That's no easy chore.
I keep saying we should see what the Giants actually do before criticizing them. There are a couple of Korean players in play and a couple of Cubans, one of whom is said to have the potential of Yasiel Puig and the ability to play anywhere but shortstop.
Let's see what they do, and THEN critique. In the meantime, instead of lamenting what they HAVEN'T done, why not come up with ideas they they CAN pursue with their $30 million.
It's one thing to say the cup is half empty. It's another to have no idea how to fill it.
Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2616/question-answered#ixzz3Lymuk0FS