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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 3, 2014 9:54:18 GMT -5
We've all seen some pretty well pitched games, but Jacob deGromm impressed the living daylights out of me yesterday.
Vogey was sharp friday. As sharp a almost any one can be.
deGromm took it 5 steps further, and at 95-96 mph.
Wow!
Where'd this guy come from!
And as much as I love Michael Morse... .the longer this season wears on... the more his terrible defense is becoming exposed.
And where did his offense go?
boly
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 3, 2014 10:19:47 GMT -5
DeGromm was superb, but I was at the game yesterday and according to the scoreboard gun he was throwing 93 mph, with an occasional 94. Are they using a faster gun on the broadcasts? He had terrific stuff, but his fastball didn't seem overpowering, except to someone like Michael Morse, who would be overpowered by a Zito fastball these days!
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 3, 2014 14:59:32 GMT -5
Accordig to the gun on TV, Mark, it was a lot of 94's... an occasional 95 or 96.
But man!
He was SHARP!
And for me to give credit to an OPPOSING pitcher... well, that's almost unheard of!
I just don't do it.
boly
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Post by donk33 on Aug 3, 2014 15:37:22 GMT -5
Is there anyone around who doesn't think Morse should have pulled after batting in the 7th inning...today he was pulled in the 5th inning...of course they had a big lead, but in Vogey's game he didn't figure to get another at bat, but his fielding is getting too painful in the outfield....Morse is thru as a hitter, get rid of him and give the job to Perez.....Giving a guy an at bat every 5 games doesn't really mean he was given a shot....if Bochy, or Rog, was the manager, it would be a coin toss if Willie Mays got to play after his first 3 games...
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 3, 2014 15:37:23 GMT -5
I've seen too many great pitching performances against the Giants to give credit to the pitchers anymore, Boly. The Giants, in particular, have been horrible against starters they're facing for the first time. DeGromm, on the other hand, has also pitched well in his other starts against real teams with real hitters, so I'm going to agree with you this time.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 3, 2014 15:40:03 GMT -5
Don, I agree with you about Morse, but Juan Perez isn't much of an answer. I'd have Adam Duvall playing LF in Fresno every day for the next couple of weeks. Keith Hernandez mentioned on the NY broadcast that the Giants are "disenchanted" with Morse and he won't be back next year. They should be, but I'm surprised to openly hear this.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 3, 2014 20:42:46 GMT -5
Mark- Keith Hernandez mentioned on the NY broadcast that the Giants are "disenchanted" with Morse and he won't be back next year. They should be, but I'm surprised to openly hear this.
--boly says---
I don't know where Keith heard that, Mark, but if they are NOT disenchanted with him, they should be!
Belt, who's missed, what almost 75 games almost has as many HRs and he's never been considered a HR guy.
With his new grip and swing, maybe he should be.
boly
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Post by Rog on Aug 3, 2014 21:14:31 GMT -5
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Post by Rog on Aug 3, 2014 21:18:43 GMT -5
Getting ready for next year is going to be intriguing. If Morse doesn't bounce back, he likely won't be back, as was stated. There is no clear answer yet to second base. And whether to bring Pablo back is a big question.
So the Giants have the possibility of uncertainty at three of the eight positions.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 3, 2014 21:38:19 GMT -5
I don't think there's a question about whether they want to bring Pablo back, Rog. Sabean made it clear he didn't want to take on 2015 salary at the trade deadline because he was going to attempt to re-sign Sandoval. I heard Bobby Evans asked if the Giants would consider trading Pablo at the deadline since he was in his walk year, and Bobby said "why would we trade offense when offense is our biggest need?" If Pablo Sandoval isn't a Giant next year it will be because they're outbid for him, not because they decided they didn't want him. Needless to say, they'll extend him a qualifying offer too, to scare off other teams.
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Post by donk33 on Aug 3, 2014 23:21:37 GMT -5
dk...you don't get the drift...you talk about guys making their mark when they got their chance to play...,it took the great Willie some time to show his ability.......the Stretch version of Willie made his mark right away....
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Post by Rog on Aug 4, 2014 1:01:01 GMT -5
dk...you don't get the drift...you talk about guys making their mark when they got their chance to play...,it took the great Willie some time to show his ability.......the Stretch version of Willie made his mark right away.... Rog -- Of course I got your drift, Don. As you well know, Willie Mays was actually crying at his locker after going 0 for 12 to start his career. Leo Durocher put his arm around Willie and told him, "As long as I'm the manager, you're my center fielder." Willie then hit a tremendous home run to left field off future Hall of Famer Warren Spahn in his 13th trip. What many don't realize is that Willie then went 0 for his next 13, putting him at 1 for 26. Then he got going, and the rest is history. Spahn later joked that if he had gotten Willie out that first time they faced, maybe pitchers wouldn't have had to face Willie the next 20+ years. One thing about Willie's 0 for 12 is that it included only 1 strikeout. Willie wasn't being blown away. His 0 for 13 included just 2 strikeouts. Willie was 1 for 26, but he had walked four times and struck out only three. Of course I talk about guys making the most of their chance to play. Willie was hitting .477 at Minneapolis when he was called up. The Giants took out a full-page ad to console the people of Minneapolis who followed their AAA Millers. Willie himself told Leo Durocher on the phone that he wasn't ready. Leo asked Willie what he was hitting. ".477" was Willie's reply. Leo asked, "Do you think you can hit 2 f---ing 50 for me? Willie needed to produce eventually, but his leash was very long. Nearly 60 years later, Buster Posey had a long leash. The length of the leash is somewhat proportionate to the level of the prospect. Necessity also plays a part in it. Of Willie McCovey's 4 for 4 debut against future Hall of Famer Robin Roberts, in which Willie hit two singles and -- believe it or not -- two triples, it was written that he "hit all the fences and touched all the bases." As has been pointed out on recent Giants telecasts, McCovey won the 1959 Rookie of the Year Award despite playing in only 52 games. Willie wasn't called up until the end of July that season. McCovey went on to fall on hard times in 1960 and was sent down. Even in the Giants World Series year of 1962, he barely reached double figures in at bats against southpaws. I recall Joey Amalfitano's pinch hitting for Stretch with the game on the line. As amazing as that seems today. Orlando Cepeda's knee injury is what finally gave Stretch a chance to play every day. Which led to Orlando's playing third base and then right field, to Willie's playing left field, and ultimately to the Cepeda for Ray Sadecki trade. What few remember is that in Juan Marichal's no-hitter against the Astros in 1963, the closest thing to a hit was a drive to deep left center by Carl Warwick. As the fans watched Mays cover vast amounts of ground to try to backhand the ball, the taller Willie cut in front of Mays to make a sparkling backhand catch himself. Would Mays himself have been able to protect the no-hitter if McCovey hadn't gotten over? Given the tremendous fielding of Mays, let's assume so. But it would have been oh so close. I don't think anyone expected McCovey to make the play. Since all eyes were on Mays, it was as if McCovey had come from nowhere. Because of his bad knees, Stretch wasn't a fast starter. But once he got those long legs going, he actually had surprising speed. Not a burner by any stretch of the imagination, but not a slow runner, either. Excellent base runner too. McCovey made his mark early, then faltered and had to make it again. Hard to believe, isn't it, that it wasn't until 1963 that he once again got his chance to play against southpaws? In contrast, Mays struggled badly for 7 games before breaking out and reaching .300 for the first time four weeks and a day after his debut. One thing that aided Willie in those first 7 games in which he struggled so badly at the plate is that he recorded 25 putouts and an assist. Willie was involved in a seventh of the outs the Giants recorded in those 7 games. It also didn't hurt that the Giants, who had been struggling before Willie was called up, won 5 of the 7 games. Here's another way of looking at Willie's horribly slow start at the plate with the Giants. After his 1 for 26 start, he was still hitting .411 on the year between Minneapolis and New York. Think it was realistic for the Giants to stick with him for a long while? I hope that's enough drift for you! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2399/impressed#ixzz39OjlgT1S
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Post by Rog on Aug 4, 2014 1:18:32 GMT -5
If not for the qualifying offer, I think the Giants would be outbid for Pablo's services if they allow him to become a free agent. But the potential loss of a draft pick probably will keep the contract required to sign Pablo within the Giants' reach.
Think about next year though. The Giants already have a ton of commitments, and they have those three unsettled positions -- as well as the 5th starter slot. Pretty good chance I would think that Vogelsong or Peavy comes back as the 5th starter, which should keep the cost in 7 figures. Pablo might come in at something like $15 million. Ideally they would have 8 figures to spend on a left fielder, but that doesn't seem likely. If Morse can bounce back, he could certainly still win himself a contract.
The Giants are almost forced to rely on someone from the trio of Panik, Adrianza and Duffy for the keystone, simply to keep costs under any semblance of control. Unless they can get Romo on the cheap, it's almost certain Sergio won't be back.
The catcher position could affect Pablo's future with the Giants. I suspect that the Giants would hope for a situation in which they would have Pablo locked up long enough for Posey's eventual position switch to play out. Since that would seem to be to third base, the Giants might then be able to get a lot for Pablo in trade. The development of Andrew Susac into a starting-caliber catcher would of course be key in the equation as well.
It appears to me that Susac has a chance next season to catch Tim Lincecum and to catch the occasional game against a southpaw, allowing Buster to try out third base and Pablo to rest against the southpaw, a category of pitcher he no longer hits. Buster could still play first on occasion to give Brandon Belt the occasional day of rest, and since Belt has had trouble staying healthy, Buster might be able to get plenty of work there. It would be nice if Adam Duvall could develop enough to also be a complement at the corners and perhaps play a fair amount in case of injury.
In addition to all their other holes to fill, the Giants should make a concerted effort to strengthen their depth. When the Giants get Angel Pagan back, they'll be a pretty good team. But they will seemingly always be an injury away from a mediocre lineup -- until they add a lot more depth.
The Giants have long been a pitching oriented team. If they can also become hitting oriented, they should be pretty darn good.
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Post by rxmeister on Aug 4, 2014 7:46:59 GMT -5
I agree with Don about the Giants overreacting to bad starts. We're talking about cheap starters and there might be a minor league starter that's not bad, but he was rushed to the majors last year and looked terrible. That would be Mike Kickham. He's pitched well this year at Fresno, with a decent 3.67 ERA which in the PCL isn't bad at all. He's struck out 117 in 127 innings and although the walks are still too high at 49, he seems to be making progress. However he might never get another look because he was so bad last year.
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 4, 2014 9:27:05 GMT -5
I guess I would counter that by saying that when they first came up, Petite and Machi weren't very good either.
I remember the first few times I saw BOTH pitch, thinking; "These guys are the BEST we can do? Get serious!"
Now Petite certainly hasn't done as well as a starter as I expected, but Machi has blossomed nicely.
As to Kickham... I wasn't impressed with his stuff when I watched him pitched.
Then again, way back in the last 90's I think it was, we had a right hander with a straight-as-a string fastball whom I thought stunk.
We traded him to the White Sox and he went on to have a stellar career as a closer.
Aaron Folkks? Or something like that.
I can't remember.
My point is that first looks can be deceiving, and that I would HOPE the Giants and Bochy were smarter than that.
I would hope.
boly
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Post by donk33 on Aug 4, 2014 15:41:36 GMT -5
dk...you don't get the drift...you talk about guys making their mark when they got their chance to play...,it took the great Willie some time to show his ability.......the Stretch version of Willie made his mark right away.... Rog -- Of course I got your drift, Don. As you well know, Willie Mays was actually crying at his locker after going 0 for 12 to start his career. Leo Durocher put his arm around Willie and told him, "As long as I'm the manager, you're my center fielder." Willie then hit a tremendous home run to left field off future Hall of Famer Warren Spahn in his 13th trip. What many don't realize is that Willie then went 0 for his next 13, putting him at 1 for 26. Then he got going, and the rest is history. Spahn later joked that if he had gotten Willie out that first time they faced, maybe pitchers wouldn't have had to face Willie the next 20+ years. One thing about Willie's 0 for 12 is that it included only 1 strikeout. Willie wasn't being blown away. His 0 for 13 included just 2 strikeouts. Willie was 1 for 26, but he had walked four times and struck out only three. Of course I talk about guys making the most of their chance to play. Willie was hitting .477 at Minneapolis when he was called up. The Giants took out a full-page ad to console the people of Minneapolis who followed their AAA Millers. Willie himself told Leo Durocher on the phone that he wasn't ready. Leo asked Willie what he was hitting. ".477" was Willie's reply. Leo asked, "Do you think you can hit 2 f---ing 50 for me? Willie needed to produce eventually, but his leash was very long. Nearly 60 years later, Buster Posey had a long leash. The length of the leash is somewhat proportionate to the level of the prospect. Necessity also plays a part in it. Of Willie McCovey's 4 for 4 debut against future Hall of Famer Robin Roberts, in which Willie hit two singles and -- believe it or not -- two triples, it was written that he "hit all the fences and touched all the bases." As has been pointed out on recent Giants telecasts, McCovey won the 1959 Rookie of the Year Award despite playing in only 52 games. Willie wasn't called up until the end of July that season. McCovey went on to fall on hard times in 1960 and was sent down. Even in the Giants World Series year of 1962, he barely reached double figures in at bats against southpaws. I recall Joey Amalfitano's pinch hitting for Stretch with the game on the line. As amazing as that seems today. Orlando Cepeda's knee injury is what finally gave Stretch a chance to play every day. Which led to Orlando's playing third base and then right field, to Willie's playing left field, and ultimately to the Cepeda for Ray Sadecki trade. What few remember is that in Juan Marichal's no-hitter against the Astros in 1963, the closest thing to a hit was a drive to deep left center by Carl Warwick. As the fans watched Mays cover vast amounts of ground to try to backhand the ball, the taller Willie cut in front of Mays to make a sparkling backhand catch himself. Would Mays himself have been able to protect the no-hitter if McCovey hadn't gotten over? Given the tremendous fielding of Mays, let's assume so. But it would have been oh so close. I don't think anyone expected McCovey to make the play. Since all eyes were on Mays, it was as if McCovey had come from nowhere. Because of his bad knees, Stretch wasn't a fast starter. But once he got those long legs going, he actually had surprising speed. Not a burner by any stretch of the imagination, but not a slow runner, either. Excellent base runner too. McCovey made his mark early, then faltered and had to make it again. Hard to believe, isn't it, that it wasn't until 1963 that he once again got his chance to play against southpaws? In contrast, Mays struggled badly for 7 games before breaking out and reaching .300 for the first time four weeks and a day after his debut. One thing that aided Willie in those first 7 games in which he struggled so badly at the plate is that he recorded 25 putouts and an assist. Willie was involved in a seventh of the outs the Giants recorded in those 7 games. It also didn't hurt that the Giants, who had been struggling before Willie was called up, won 5 of the 7 games. Here's another way of looking at Willie's horribly slow start at the plate with the Giants. After his 1 for 26 start, he was still hitting .411 on the year between Minneapolis and New York. Think it was realistic for the Giants to stick with him for a long while? I hope that's enough drift for you! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2399/impressed#ixzz39OjlgT1S
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Post by donk33 on Aug 4, 2014 15:46:29 GMT -5
dk..I lived thru Mays'debut,etc....but Ellison had the same type of AAA numbers and the Giants didn't put him on the field when they finally brought him up...Perez was leading Fresno in BA when everyone else was getting call ups.....didn't you feel much easier with Perez in LF...even when he didn't know what to do with his glasses?
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Post by Rog on Aug 4, 2014 16:35:45 GMT -5
Mark -- However he might never get another look because he was so bad last year.
Rog -- Kickham had his shot last season and blew it, but if he keeps pitching well, he should get another one. In fact, if one of the top starters plus Petit went down right now, if the Giants couldn't make a decent waiver trade, I suspect Mike would be the one put in the rotation right now.
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Post by Rog on Aug 4, 2014 17:10:56 GMT -5
dk..I lived thru Mays'debut,etc....but Ellison had the same type of AAA numbers and the Giants didn't put him on the field when they finally brought him up...
Rog -- I just KNEW you were going to bring up Ellison. Couldn't resist, could you?
So let's count the differences:
. Mays was considered to have super star potential; Ellison was a player who might possibly become a starting player if he maxed out his ability.
. Mays had hit .370 in his only previous season in the minors; Ellison's accomplishments were a bit more modest.
. Mays had the potential to as good a base stealer and fielder as the game had; Ellison had the potential to be an above-average base runner and fielder, if he maxed out.
. Mays was hitting .477 with power when he was called up; Ellison was hitting over .400, but guys occasionally do that in the minors. I've never heard of anyone hitting .477.
. Mays was far younger than Ellison.
. Ellison had major league exerience; Willie was pretty darn raw.
You get the idea, right? Making a comparison between Mays and Ellison is a bigger stretch than Willie McCovey. A LOT Bigger.
Don -- Perez was leading Fresno in BA when everyone else was getting call ups.
Rog -- Until this present call up, Perez had done very poorly at the major league level this year. The Giants were hoping to find SOMEONE who could make a significant contribution in the outfield. If Perez continues to play well, he'll be that guy.
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Post by donk33 on Aug 4, 2014 22:18:12 GMT -5
dk...wrong, once more, Rog...I told you who was the best AAA player I ever saw...Monte Irvin, Jersey City Giants...hitting .510/.691/ 1.216/ 1.907 when he was called up to the Giants......I have never tried to put Ellison in the HOF and no way have I ever compared him to Mays...we are talking about giving a guy a shot when he is putting up good numbers in the minors and not who is better than whom ever....so save your snide remarks for something I said not something you had a bad dream about....yes, Perez has not done well in the majors, but what I was saying that we will never know about a kid until he is given a fair shot at the job.....we need ball players, not HOF'ers, and I don't think Morse is the nguy....
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Post by Rog on Aug 5, 2014 0:02:40 GMT -5
dk...wrong, once more, Rog...I told you who was the best AAA player I ever saw...Monte Irvin, Jersey City Giants...hitting .510/.691/ 1.216/ 1.907 when he was called up to the Giants. Rog -- Amazing numbers by Monte. And he put up similar numbers to Willie in his first season in the minors (Mays .370; Irvin .373). Monte's was more impressive, since it came in AAA, while Willie's came in Class B (about the equivalent of Low A ball now). There was a key difference though. Monte was a seasoned player, while Willie was 19 and 20 during his two seasons. Anyway, I'm glad I can be wrong so often for you Don! Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2399/impressed#ixzz39UTheIpc
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Post by Rog on Aug 5, 2014 0:16:54 GMT -5
Don -- we are talking about giving a guy a shot when he is putting up good numbers in the minors Rog -- I keep waiting for the players the Giants passed over by not giving them an opportunity to show how wrong the Giants were. The guy who has come the closest is Conor Gillaspie, who was shepherded primarily by Boagie. Conor is having one HECK of a season, although he's doing it as essentially a platoon player. Still, I do believe the Giants would take Conor back in a heartbeat. Conor's biggest problem was that he could only play third base. If he had been successful in his attempted switch to the keystone, he might still be a Giant. Here's an intriguing thought. If Conor were still a Giant, he could be a potential player to platoon with Buster Posey at third base. As I've mentioned, I think Buster could play there, and as a right-handed hitter, he would complement Conor very nicely when Buster wasn't playing behind the plate. The Giants will likely pay Pablo Sandoval too much money for them to seriously consider platooning him with Buster, but it certainly wouldn't be a bad idea. Here is something ironic. These days if Pablo WEREN'T starting, he would make a good defensive replacement. Remember when it was HE who was being replaced. As for Ellison, I'm just going to say had the Giants given him a chance, he would still be their center fielder, and leave it at that. I'm not sure anything less would satisfy you, Don. By the way, I was a big Ellison fan in 2005. In a way, he was a right-handed hitting Gregor Blanco though, although he didn't have Gregor's glove. You are certainly right that Jason's .406 at Fresno in 2006 was quite impressive, but even with that, he didn't hit .300 over his minor league career. Jason did show just how good a player can be and still not be a bona fide long-term major leaguer. In a way, Fred Lewis eventually kind of took Jason's place in the Giants' outfield. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2399/impressed?page=1&scrollTo=21700#ixzz39UV4xqdj
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Post by Rog on Aug 5, 2014 0:19:46 GMT -5
There is some talk that Mike Kickham might eventually become a reliever. Dan Runzler, a reliever turned starter turned reliever, has moved on to Japan. I could see him as a potential third southpaw in the bullpen for the Giants, but apparently the Giants didn't see things that way.
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Post by Rog on Aug 5, 2014 0:36:19 GMT -5
Boly -- Then again, way back in the last 90's I think it was, we had a right hander with a straight-as-a string fastball whom I thought stunk. We traded him to the White Sox and he went on to have a stellar career as a closer. Aaron Folkks? Or something like that. Rog -- That was Keith Foulke, Boly. The Giants traded him in the big 1997 trade for Wilson Alvarez, Danny Darwin and Roberto Hernandez. Many people -- including me -- thought that deal would put the Giants in the post season, but somehow it didn't. Meanwhile, Foulke four times exceeded 30 saves and exceeded 40 in two of those. I remember liking him when I saw him pitch at San Jose, but before he was traded to the Pale Hose, he had ERA's of 6.38 and 8.26 with the Giants. The Giants also traded Bobby Howry in that deal. Bobby was also a decent reliever for 13 years. By far his best was 28 saves in 1999. Foulke was actually better than Howry that season, posting a 2.22 ERA over 105 innings. That's a lot of innings for a reliever, and Keith leverage that season to become the White Sox closer in four of the next five seasons. The pitcher whose name you sort of wove into the story was southpaw Aaron Fultz. Aaron arrived in 2000 and became a journeyman LOOGY for eight seasons and five teams. Anyway, I'm surprised that you didn't think more highly of Foulke. He went on to post 191 saves and a career ERA of 3.33. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2399/impressed#ixzz39UZsnKyg
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Post by klaiggeb on Aug 5, 2014 9:34:00 GMT -5
THAT'S the guy, Rog! Thanks!
And I had forgotten about Howery.
I remember watching Foukle pitch in 97 and being totally UNIMPRESSED with that 'straight as a string' fastball.
Somewhere along the line, he learned really good control, because that pitch and its lack of movement never came back to bite him in those 30+ save seasons.
It wasn't Fultz I was alluding to at all, Rog.
Similar names, but I remember Aaron. NOt in the same class as Keith.
boly
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Post by Rog on Aug 5, 2014 13:25:43 GMT -5
No, no. I realized Aaron Fultz wasn't the guy you were speaking about, Boly. I knew it was Keith Foulke, which is why I led with him. But I also thought the name "Aaron Folkks. Or something like that." At the time of the deal, shortstop Mike Caruso was viewed by some as the key player for the White Sox. And indeed he hit over .300 AS A SHORTSTOP for a year before more or less fading into the sunset.
I hope you're reading the Mays/McCovey stuff Don and I have written. A lot of really good Giants history there. And both of us have written most of it off the top of our heads. You know the old saying "he's forgotten more than most people know?" I used to know what that meant, but now I've forgotten.
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Post by donk33 on Aug 5, 2014 14:28:28 GMT -5
Don -- we are talking about giving a guy a shot when he is putting up good numbers in the minors Rog -- I keep waiting for the players the Giants passed over by not giving them an opportunity to show how wrong the Giants were. The guy who has come the closest is Conor Gillaspie, who was shepherded primarily by Boagie. Conor is having one HECK of a season, although he's doing it as essentially a platoon player.dk...Simon isn't doing too bad, Nathan, Grilli, Mueller,2 Cruz's, Davis, Foulke,Howry, Linebrink, Liriano,Reed, Singleton, however, stats and second guessing is not the answer....getting passed over sometimes turns a guy's whole career over...we will never know what might have been....the one guy that I thought might have been something special was Vogelsong...could be he tried too hard after he was traded by the Giants and hurt his arm...and it took a long time for him to recover....I thought he was a great prospect when he was young and he was the tough bulldog he still is today...when you second guess some of the others there were so many with an injury background that was in the background...
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Post by Rog on Aug 5, 2014 16:00:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure the above list is a good example of players who were passed over. Many were traded, and some were playing a lot for Giants prior to being so. Others weren't far enough along to be "passed over."
I'm talking about players who were waived or released by the Giants after not getting much of a chance (such as Jason Ellison) who then went on to make a difference for other teams. Let's just say the list is short.
One guy who is on the list who did get released and go on to have a pretty good career was Rajai Davis. I hated to see Rajai go, but he was hitting just HORRIBLY when the Giants gave up on him. And they may have let him go to provide a chance to another player or players whom you would otherwise (or still) say didn't get enough of a shot.
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Post by donk33 on Aug 6, 2014 1:25:39 GMT -5
Jason was traded for a pitcher...Blackly or close to that...
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Post by Rog on Aug 6, 2014 7:26:32 GMT -5
Don -- Jason was traded for a pitcher...Blackly or close to that... Rog -- Jason was indeed traded for Travis Blackley in a deal of one failed prospect for another. Blackley performed the better of the two after the trade, but he didn't set the world on fire either. Jason has been out of baseball for a while, while Blackley pitched in 46 games last season, including three starts. I don't see any stats for Jason this season, so he too may have retired. The one guy the Giants seemed to most misjudge was Joe Nathan -- but it wasn't because they didn't give him a chance. In the season before they traded him, Joe posted a 2.96 ERA in 78 games. Without looking, I'll bet there aren't a dozen pitchers since who have pitched in that many games for the Giants in a season. Joe led the Giants in games pitched that season. Looking it up, by my count, the Giants have had exactly two pitchers who have pitched in more than 78 games since then -- both of them in the season immediately following the trade. Maybe the Giants HAVE made mistakes in not giving players enough of a chance pnce they reached the major leagues. But there is scant evidence to indicate it. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2399/impressed#ixzz39c5fPJbm
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