Post by Rog on Feb 14, 2014 22:51:51 GMT -5
Don -- Since Rog has the Bill James book and I only copy parts in the book store...why not give a full run down of Posey's stats in comparison to the other catchers in their fielding...Posey is far behind in the stats they give....
Rog -- I'll leave the stat comparison to you. I know two things: Buster's stats have been pretty good. As you mentioned, he was picked #7 defensively among catchers and #5 by both James and Peter Gammons.
Don -- also, James is predicting a rebound in Posey's hitting even though he was terrible in the last half of the season...
Rog -- Most are predicting the same. Pretty foolish not to. Buster may indeed have gotten tired. In previous years, he had been fabulous late in the season.
Don -- maybe Posey's work outs will help...as I suggested during the season...his body couldn't stand the strain of catching every game...unlike Johnny Bench...and I'll tell Lou Brock, Maury Wills, etc. that you said the base runners were stinko in Bench's era....
Rog -- Those guys were indeed great base stealers. Still, it is fact that over Johnny's career, National League base stealers were successful only 65% of the time. Despite more emphasis on both pitcher and catcher delivery time, base stealers over Buster's career thus far have stolen successfully 72% of the time.
In other words, for every four times today's base stealers are thrown out in today's game, they were thrown out five times in Johnny's time. And it wasn't necessarily because base stealers were stealing more often. In Buster's four seasons, NL base stealers have averaged under half a stolen base per game. In Johnny's first two full seasons, they averaged a little under four-ninths per contest.
As you mentioned, Wills and Brock were very prolific base stealers. But they weren't all that efficient. Wills was successful 74% of the time, and Brock 71%. Combined, they were successful 72% of the time. That's the same success percentage as the AVERAGE base stealer has today.
Today's base stealers don't steal nearly as many bases as Wills and Brock, but they were just as successful when they do so.
The game keeps changing. There is considerable evidence the quality keeps improving. But whether one agrees with that thought or not, there is no doubt the game keeps changing.
And there seems little doubt that Johnny Bench's catching changed considerably -- for the better -- after his first two full seasons.
By the way, I never said that the base runners were stinko during Bench's time. I'm not sure exactly what I said, but it wasn't that they were stinko. I believe I said the base stealers were less efficient. If today's base runners are as efficient as the great Brock and Wills (and they were indeed great for their time), the average base stealer during Bench's time wasn't very efficient.
Please don't put words in my mouth. Both you and Randy have a bad habit if doing that, and, frankly, it doesn't make any of us look better.
Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2186/top-10-catchers?page=1#scrollTo=18855#ixzz2tKeh4CwT
Rog -- I'll leave the stat comparison to you. I know two things: Buster's stats have been pretty good. As you mentioned, he was picked #7 defensively among catchers and #5 by both James and Peter Gammons.
Don -- also, James is predicting a rebound in Posey's hitting even though he was terrible in the last half of the season...
Rog -- Most are predicting the same. Pretty foolish not to. Buster may indeed have gotten tired. In previous years, he had been fabulous late in the season.
Don -- maybe Posey's work outs will help...as I suggested during the season...his body couldn't stand the strain of catching every game...unlike Johnny Bench...and I'll tell Lou Brock, Maury Wills, etc. that you said the base runners were stinko in Bench's era....
Rog -- Those guys were indeed great base stealers. Still, it is fact that over Johnny's career, National League base stealers were successful only 65% of the time. Despite more emphasis on both pitcher and catcher delivery time, base stealers over Buster's career thus far have stolen successfully 72% of the time.
In other words, for every four times today's base stealers are thrown out in today's game, they were thrown out five times in Johnny's time. And it wasn't necessarily because base stealers were stealing more often. In Buster's four seasons, NL base stealers have averaged under half a stolen base per game. In Johnny's first two full seasons, they averaged a little under four-ninths per contest.
As you mentioned, Wills and Brock were very prolific base stealers. But they weren't all that efficient. Wills was successful 74% of the time, and Brock 71%. Combined, they were successful 72% of the time. That's the same success percentage as the AVERAGE base stealer has today.
Today's base stealers don't steal nearly as many bases as Wills and Brock, but they were just as successful when they do so.
The game keeps changing. There is considerable evidence the quality keeps improving. But whether one agrees with that thought or not, there is no doubt the game keeps changing.
And there seems little doubt that Johnny Bench's catching changed considerably -- for the better -- after his first two full seasons.
By the way, I never said that the base runners were stinko during Bench's time. I'm not sure exactly what I said, but it wasn't that they were stinko. I believe I said the base stealers were less efficient. If today's base runners are as efficient as the great Brock and Wills (and they were indeed great for their time), the average base stealer during Bench's time wasn't very efficient.
Please don't put words in my mouth. Both you and Randy have a bad habit if doing that, and, frankly, it doesn't make any of us look better.
Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/thread/2186/top-10-catchers?page=1#scrollTo=18855#ixzz2tKeh4CwT