JFK-50 years today

[allenreed]

Still makes me sad and depressed. I'm not even sure he was that great a President, and he surely had his shortcomings as a man, but our country lost something that day, and I'm not sure we've ever recovered.

[sharksrog]

Amazing that it has already been half a century. Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?

[rxmeister]

I remember it vividly because my family actually moved the day of the funeral, November 25, 1963. Everybody remembers the image of his son saluting the American flag on the casket, and unfortunately the son died way too early as well. What a great, but cursed family.

[allenreed]

He had his problems, as did his brothers, but on the job they were interested in doing what was best for the country. I wish we could say the same about our current President. From where he sits currently, Barack might do well to humble himself a bit and try to learn something from JFK, and even Clinton.

[rxmeister]

This was such a nice thread you started, Allen, and then you use it to take a shot at Obama. Why am I not surprised?

[allenreed]

Am I wrong? Do you think he's doing/has done what's best for the country? Seriously?

[rxmeister]

Have a happy Thanksgiving, Allen!

[klaiggeb]

Still makes me sad and depressed. I'm not even sure he was that great a President, and he surely had his shortcomings as a man, but our country lost something that day, and I'm not sure we've ever recovered.

---boly says---

I'm not sure, but I think I'm one of a very few on this board who was AT LEAST in high school when he was asassinated.

I remember that day, and all of the days that followed as if they just happened.

The country simply went numb. And, believe it or not, it was even more numb than after 9/112.

After 9/11 there was horror and anger, but it wasn't numb. Perhaps that's the difference in the instantaneous pictures and info we have today.

At the time, he was not as 'beloved' has history has made him out to be. He was love, that is for sure.

He was respected, THAT is for sure.

The country was behind him a whole HECK of a lot more than Obama.

Obama is polorizing, Kennedy was not.

But make NO mistake, the general feelling throughout the country was that we were ONE, and moving in a commonly agreed upon direction.

It is interesting through the years, how so many try to perpetuate the Lee Harvey killed him rumor.

There is so much forensic evidence available that proves that IF Oswald fired shot at all it, was not his shot that killed JFK.

In David Lifton's book, "Best Evidence," he presents two very telling photos and autopsy drawings from that day. ( you can find both on line)

The first is the picture of the Head of Parkland Hospital with the index finger of his right hand pointing at and touching the 1:00 position on his forhead.

The ER physicians that attended Kennedy were VERY familiar with gunshot wounds, and THAT is where they say the kill-shot entered.

The other actually are two autopsy drawings made that day.

The first is a schematic showing a huge hole in the BACK of JFK's head, the other, an almost life-like rendering of the back of his had, with a ruler used as perspective so show the size of the flap of scalp and hair covering an exit wound about 4 -6 six inces in diameter.

A shot from the rear can't produce that.

Add that to the testimony of the Secret Service agent walking behind the car who was splattered with blood and brain matter, and to think Oswald fired the killing shot is nonsense.

Believe what you will, but I'm following the forensic evidence.


Most of the books written in the 10-20 years that followed JFK's death, though popular, have been widely discredited as all they did was rehash what the others wrote; they did little research on their own.

Lifton's book, to my knowledge is the ONLY book that has not and cannot be discredited because it comes from actual testimony that he found, and actual records that document the how, when, who and where.

Almost 500 pages, the first couple of hundred are very technical about the autopsy and what not.

But after that, he uses actual government documents, all references provided, of many, many things that the vast majority of American does not not.

Here's one:

Kennedy's body is ON RECORD of having arrived at the hospital in Bethesda, TWO TIMES!

The first, in a common coffin, with the head and brain intact, the SECOND, in an elaborate coffin, with the brain REMOVED.

Lifton goes into great detail as to just how much time it TAKES to physically cut out a brain.

The rifle supposedly used by Oswald mysteriously disappeared from the Smithsonian some 20 years ago, as did the sterling steel container containing what was left of his brain.

Like I say, believe what you will, but Allen's right. It's incredibly sad

boly

[allenreed]

Nov 23, 2013 8:08:53 GMT -5 rxmeister said:

Have a happy Thanksgiving, Allen!

Allen- Back at ya! This year, it's also my wife's birthday. Going to be hard to get her to cook. It's hard enough on normal days.

[allenreed]

I was in third grade when it happened. I remember them telling us as we we're going to lunch in the cafeteria. I think it was different than 9/11 because by the time that happened we were desensitized to such atrocities. Back in 63, those kind of things just didn't happen. It was unimaginable. By 2001 things like that were not uncommon, maybe not to that magnitude, but we'd had the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the attack on the WTC in 93 etc. I think the Kennedy assassination was a dividing line in our country's history, and it's been a downward spiral ever since.

[sharksrog]

Man, I certainly wasn't de-sensitized to 9/11. I was just thinking yesterday that 9/11 and JFK's assasination were the two most devastating days I had experienced (aside from family deaths). Each seemed unimaginable for its time.

For a long time I have known that the day Willie Mays dies will be a tragic one for me as well. It's kind of trite to say that a little piece of me will die, but in Willie's case, the piece won't be little at all.

I know I died a little when Willie retired, and a little more when Willie McCovey did as well. McCovey was kind of like the last link to my childhood.

I remember the day Willie Mac came up, hit two triples (!) and two singles off Robin Roberts and in the words of the press, "hit all the fences and touched all the bases."

Man, they used to write back in those days, like the description of a Willie Mays triple, "The only guy who could have caught it is the one who hit it."

Or Branch Rickey's saying of a catch by Willie Mays, "That's the great catch I've ever seen, and the greatest one I ever hope to see."

Or Russ Hodges' "In what must have seemed like an illusion to a lot of people ..."

Or Lon Simmons' "That's home run number 600 for Willie Mays and the Bye Bye Baby Bonanza.!"

My dad was one of the few Giants fans to see Mays' 600th (in San Diego), and I was one of many to see Barry Bonds' 600th. Both my dad and I got to see Willie break Mel Ott's NL home run record. I'll bet there aren't 1000 people still around who saw that one. Well, may a thousand, but certainly not many more. Most crowds weren't anywhere near like they are today.

[allenreed]

Bye Bye Baby Bonanza does sound like a great call, but it was merely a contest they were running on the radio broadcasts. I can't remember who said it, but I alway liked "Willie Mays' glove, where triples go to die." I was there for the Ott record, to right off Claude Osteen.
They sometimes bring up a blast Bonds hit in BP in Colorado that went way, way up into the upper deck. I was there for that.
One of the saddest things for me was when I realized that Jack Clark was younger than me. Made me feel old. When Mays got traded was another. When Reggie Jackson got traded from the A's was another. I was an A's fan then (though not as much as the Giants), and a big Reggie fan. Another hard one for me was when Thurman Munson died.

[rxmeister]

The JFK assassination was a singular event, but in 1968 when MLK and RFK were assassinated within months of each other it was really the end of the innocence of this world to me. As for baseball, watching Mays, McCovey and Marichal get traded was heartbreaking to me, but the absolute worst was game six of the 2002 World Series. My wife chaperoned a dance at our daughters school that night and when she left to go the Giants had that 5-0 lead. I picked her up at the end, and she took one look at my face and said, "they lost?" I didn't have to say a word!

[allenreed]

I had to work that night and caught it in the X-Ray waiting room at the hospital where I was working. I couldn't even get mad and throw things. Just had to sit there and take it.

John Lennon bothered me more than RFK and MLK, I wasn't really even surprised when they got killed. Another celebrity death that really upset me, because I just loved her voice, was Karen Carpenter.
Come to think of it, I wasn't that surprised when the Giants blew that game in 2002 either. I had resigned myself to the thought that the Giants would not win a WS in my lifetime, so I almost expected it. But then they did win. Twice. Sometimes, life will surprise you.

[sharksrog]

Allen -- I had resigned myself to the thought that the Giants would not win a WS in my lifetime

Rog -- I never did resign myself to that, although I have to admit the first World Series win was almost surreal to me.

Really though, the Giants of the sixties and the Giants of the Bonds ERA had excellent teams and just didn't have much luck. I didn't really see any reason NOT to think the Giants would win one -- unless I died early. Now I don't have to worry about even that (from a Giants sense).

As I think about it, I wouldn't be resigned to not winning a World Series even if I were a Cubs fan. Certainly there would have been no reason if I were a Red Sox fan. I don't really get resigned to much of anything. I play 'em one game at a time.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2102&page=1#17030#ixzz2laSTuXNn

[sharksrog]

The death that blew me away was Roberto Clemente's.

[sharksrog]

Allen -- Bye Bye Baby Bonanza does sound like a great call, but it was merely a contest they were running on the radio broadcasts.

Rog -- To me, it really cheapened the call, but I get a laugh out of it just about every time I hear it.

Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2102&page=1#ixzz2laUym5dW

[sharksrog]

Allen -- They sometimes bring up a blast Bonds hit in BP in Colorado that went way, way up into the upper deck. I was there for that.

Rog -- Now THAT'S impressive. I hadn't heard of any Giants who was there for that. And I can't think of a guy who would be more appreciative.


Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2102&page=1#ixzz2laVTj81h

[allenreed]

It was mammoth. If you look in the upper deck at Coors, there's a row of purple seats near the top. That's where it went. A few moments later, my son asked Barry for an autograph. He was, of course, ignored.

[sfgdood]

Nice reading all these memories. I wasn't yet a glint in my dad's eye. The 60s would have been interesting to live through as an aware adult, although quite frustrating as a Giants fan.

~Dood

[sfgdood]

I have to say though, even after all the terrorism, assassinations, assassination attempts, bombings, hostage takings, wars and semi-wars that I had lived through, 9/11 was jarring for me. For one thing my gf at the time was a flight attendant and she was freaking out that whole day and I have to admit it wasnt fun thinking what if she had been working one of those flights. I also knew quite a few people living in those areas and it was hard watching them live through that nightmare.

The one memory I'm shocked that no one here has brought up that was the most traumatic for me as a Giants fan was the near move to Florida in '92. I remember being at that last home game in tears thinking it would be the last baseball game I see at the Stick. The galling part was, I had worked on the ballpark measure in San Jose that failed right before all that took place so I had been REALLY invested in it. Anyone who thinks the A's should have the right to just move into San Jose...well, them's fightin' words as far as I'm concerned.

~Dood

[allenreed]

I don't know why, but even when it was all but a foregone conclusion, I didn't think they would go. Same with 76. I just felt something would happen to save them. Of course, I felt the same about the Raiders before they moved to LA, so what do I know?

[rxmeister]

I had a different reaction to that, living in NYC of course. The franchise was down and they weren't spending money on improving the team so I didn't mind a new owner moving the team closer to me. In fact, I had visited Florida that summer and they were already selling Tampa Bay Giants t-shirts and I bought one! However I was fine with the non move when Magowan signed Barry Bonds. I knew they were committed to winning.

[dk]

Nov 25, 2013 8:30:05 GMT -5 rxmeister said:

I had a different reaction to that, living in NYC of course. The franchise was down and they weren't spending money on improving the team so I didn't mind a new owner moving the team closer to me. In fact, I had visited Florida that summer and they were already selling Tampa Bay Giants t-shirts and I bought one! However I was fine with the non move when Magowan signed Barry Bonds. I knew they were committed to winning.

dk..don't you find it funny that SF fans would be shook up about losing the Giants when they lured them from Minn. and NY...

[allenreed]

No. Not really.

[sfgdood]

it wasn't the fans that lured the team to SF, dk

~Dood

[dk]

Nov 25, 2013 15:35:25 GMT -5 sfgdood said:

it wasn't the fans that lured the team to SF, dk


dk it was the sight of fans sitting in the ball park.....and their elected officials dangling deals in their face...

[dk]

I moved into my house in Lakewood just before JFK was shot...50 years later I finally moved out...I now live in the heart of the right wing nuts of Orange County...close to Angel Stadium....

[allenreed]

Hopefully, they'll be able to lay some knowledge and common sense on you.

[rxmeister]

If he branded them as "nuts" I'm pretty sure he won't be influenced by them.