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Post by rxmeister on Sept 14, 2013 13:27:25 GMT -5
He's too aggressive at the plate too, a Panda without the power. On a team like the Red Sox, who are patient up and down the lineup, you can afford him, but the Giants have too many players like this already.
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 15, 2013 12:43:58 GMT -5
Allen -- He's a middle infielder more than a corner infielder. He's got excellent range at short, probably more range than Crawford, although Brandon has a better glove. Rog -- You and Mark both agree on the first sentence, although you are quite disparate in your feelings on range. Personally, I'm home there. I'm not sure which of you is right on the range factor, although I prefer it to the microwave in all sports except basketball. On the one hand, part of the reason Joaquin was chosen over Cano was that Joaquin was considered to be a top shortstop. His shoulder injury ruined part of the equation. But I have to agree with Mark that his range doesn't seem outstanding. I believe Allen has struck on something here though. Many don't consider Crawford quite as highly as we do, citing his less than exceptional range. I'm not sure any shortstop is better than Brandon once they get to the ball, but I think there are other shortstops who get to more. I like Arias' reactions, so defensively I like him better at the hot corner. But his bat is nowhere nearly good enough to play there. For better or worse, IMO Pablo should be the third baseman next season, with his performance (particularly shape-wise) dictating whether the Giants re-sign him. If Pablo is in shape next season and plays well, the Giants would do well to lock him up early. If he were to become a free agent under those circumstances, he would command a cache of cash. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2000&page=1#14922#ixzz2ez4VtHG8
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 15, 2013 12:45:26 GMT -5
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 18, 2013 15:05:19 GMT -5
Allen, you said Arias is more a middle infielder, but I think we're learning with the Scutaro injury that Bochy doesn't consider him a good second baseman. He uses Abreu or even Noonan at second over Arias. Arias is just a SS-3B.
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Post by allenreed on Sept 18, 2013 16:21:21 GMT -5
Maybe. He's played 12 games at second this season. Maybe Bochy thinks the other guys are better. Maybe he's holding back Arias to replace Pablo. I think the fact is that Arias can play anywhere on the infield.
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 20, 2013 7:03:09 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on Sept 20, 2013 12:18:07 GMT -5
I think almost any player would improve with regular at bats. I think the pitch selection of bench players often suffers because they feel they have to do something great with the few ABs they have, so they may not be as patient as they should be. Also, just seeing more live pitching is bound to help.
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Post by Islandboagie on Sept 20, 2013 20:14:34 GMT -5
Rog -- Joaquin Arias' .275 average this season masks a .635 OPS.
That doesn't mean the .275 isn't representative of what kind of hitter he is. The .635 OPS just shows he doesn't have much power or ability to get on base. In this instance I think the OPS is more misleading than helpful, and the .275 avg is more accurate and in line with his career. In a solid lineup I believe Arias would be a decent 8th place hitter.
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Post by rxmeister on Sept 21, 2013 7:31:09 GMT -5
"He doesn't have power or get on base." I think while trying to tell us he's a good hitter, you pretty much proved he's a bad one. And his inability to get on base has somehow eluded the genius in the dugout who batted him leadoff last night!
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 21, 2013 10:09:37 GMT -5
And his inability to get on base has somehow eluded the genius in the dugout who batted him leadoff last night!
---boly says---
Mark, I totally agree.
Then again, a LOT of things elude Cabeza Grande; such as, it's the END of the freaking season, bozo!
Stop running the vets out there and see what your kids can do!
Sheesh!
8 games to go and you STILL exhasperate me!
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 21, 2013 10:47:22 GMT -5
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Post by klaiggeb on Sept 22, 2013 9:42:36 GMT -5
Rog -- I have to agree with you here. But if any of these guys were truly good, they would have been out there a long time ago. As in, when the games still meant something.
---boly says---
But Rog, THAT'S not the point.
A manager MUST see the kids under fire to really find out for sure.
Kieschnick is a great example. Showed power in the minors, and the numbers said he was worth a look.
But WHEN he got his chance, (93 plate appearances and 28 wiffs!), he demonstrated he was not up to the task.
Perez is another. Deserved the shot, and FINALLY, Mets and 1st Yankee game, he actually hit the ball hard a number of times.
Sorry, but we need to see more.
Personally I don't see him as a big league starter, but let's really find out.
Hembree was NOT one of those guys. He was one of our top prospects and he HAD a solid to very good season, one in which he showed outstanding growth and improvement.
NOW, not later, NOW, we need to see how he'll react in a pressure-like situation.
Bochy has won 2 world series. There is NO QUESTION he manages a bullpen well.
But Mark is right; Bochy (Cabeza Grande) is UMBILICAL-CORDED to the vets and THAT nonsense HAS to change.
boly
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Post by sharksrog on Sept 22, 2013 10:48:15 GMT -5
Rog -- I have to agree with you here. But if any of these guys were truly good, they would have been out there a long time ago. As in, when the games still meant something. ---boly says--- But Rog, THAT'S not the point. A manager MUST see the kids under fire to really find out for sure. Rog -- You are right, Boly. But of the trio you mentioned, only Heath Hembree is likely to make a difference. I felt pretty confident of that before I even saw them (although Perez snuck up on me a little). Hembree has allowed only 7.1 hits per nine in the minors, while striking out 11.4. There's a guy who, unless he is extremely wild, is going to be a pitcher. Heath has walked 3.4/9 in the minors -- not as good as we would like, but good enough not to upset us too much. Roger Kieschnick had EXTREMELY good numbers in 2012 before being injured, and he followed up with fairly good numbers this season. But the guy has struck out three times as often as he has walked. That shows a lack of plate control. Juan Perez struck out four times as often as he walked. He is excellent defensively and runs very well, so he could make a useful fifth outfielder, especially if the rest of the outfield is lefty-hitting centric. Hembree's going to pitch. Neither Kieschnick nor Perez is going to hit. Perez's three fine tools of running, fielding and throwing give him a chance as a fifth outfielder. You're right though that this methodology can be wrong on occasion. It WOULD be a good idea to check these guys out. To me, the guy really being overlooked is Francisco Peguero. Not that I like him, but he's had only 27 at bats on the season, and he can run, field and throw. Now, Don is going to cite several players who have succeeded despite not following my formula, but it works pretty well for players even before one sees them. When one combines his scouting with the numbers, he can fare pretty well. Even without seeing these guys play in the majors. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=2000&page=2#15212#ixzz2fdVYcreJ
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