Goudin

[sfgdood]

I don't know about you guys but, to me, making Chad Goudin a full time starter is not a good idea. He was a more than adequate stop gap but looking at his career numbers, whenever he was a full time starter his stats werent all that good. I think we're seeing signs of him wearing down late in the season. I doubt whether his meatless diet gives him enough stamina to pitch high innings during a season effectively. My feeling is the best way to use him would be the original plan...long relief and spot starting.

~Dood

[sfgdood]

oh, and lest we forget, he's still got that little legal thing from Las Vegas still pending...oy!

~Dood

[allenreed]

Actually, I think the problem is he developed carpal tunnel. Probably too much texting. That would explain is problem with control in his latest start. He was DL'd today, I believe.
The thing in Vegas, I thought that had been settled. No?

[sfgdood]

not settled yet. They allowed Chad to finish his season before they prosecute. Sometime in the offseason we shall see it resolved.

~Dood

[rxmeister]

I agree that assuming Gaudin can be an everyday starter next year would be a mistake. Nice to see Ryan Vogelsong pitch a good game last night. Let's see how he does in September.

[sharksrog]

Mark -- I agree that assuming Gaudin can be an everyday starter next year would be a mistake.

Rog -- The problem would be trying to fill both his spot and Tim's spot in the rotation. The Giants don't appear to have immediate answers in their farm system, and starting pitchers are very expensive at either the free agent market or on the trade market.

I heard someone recently say he thought half the Giants roster might turn over this winter. Given the budget the Giants will likely have, they may have to get creative.

Ideally, Gaudin would be something of a super reliever poised as the 6th starter. But how much money can the Giants put into their rotation? The one saving grace is Bumgarner's extremely team-friendly contract.

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[rxmeister]

Whoever said half the team will turn over is way off base, I think. There will be changes, but the core will remain intact. I'm sure the Giants will assume this year is an aberration. Now another year like this one and all bets are off!

[allenreed]

How many players do you think make up the core?

[allenreed]

Mark -- I agree that assuming Gaudin can be an everyday starter next year would be a mistake.

Allen- There were those here that once thought Jonathan Sanchez was a perfectly fine 5th starter. Gaudin has pitched as well as anyone we have in the starting role, yet he's not good enough.

[klaiggeb]

Whoever said half the team will turn over is way off base, I think. There will be changes, but the core will remain intact.

---boly says---

I agree with you, Mark.

There is NO NEED to turn 1/2 the team over.

What we need, really are just a couple of things.

1 STAY FRICKIN' HEALTHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2-We don't need 'career years' from everyone.

Simply Perform up to your normal, expected standards. No more 4+ ERA's for the likes of Cain, for example.


3-We NEED a LF in the Melky Cabrerra mold.

Unless Peguero lights it up in this last month (not likely) that means a trade of FA

4-We HAVE to solidfy the middle of the bullpen.

We can live with Casilla-Lopez-Romo on the back end (Still NOT my choice to have Romo as the closer, but we can live with it). I'd rather have a power arm closing.

Affeldt? He can have his moments, though he is getting hurt more and more and more, and THAT'S a bad sign.

Mijares? Did a nice job when gassed last night, but he's "just a guy."

Moscoso-I haven't been impressed since we got him.

Rosario? Just a guy

Dunning? I liked what I saw from Jake. Threw strikes. Wasn't afraid, and attacked the strike zone. Still, he's a question mark.

Kontos? What the heck happened to this guy?



That's all.

No major changes needed.

[rxmeister]

Injuries are overrated, Boly, all teams have them. Dodgers lost Billingsley for the year, Hanley Ramirez has been on the DL a couple of times, Kemp has been on and off the DL all year, and still they're rolling. They've definitely had more injuries than us. Look at how many injuries and problems we had last year and we still won it all. We lost Panda with the hamate, and we had the killer loss of Melky Cabrera who was leading the league in hitting. Still we won it all.
As for the core of the team, I would say Posey, Belt, Sandoval, Crawford, Cain, Bumgarner, and Romo. Add Lincecum and Pence if they're re-signed. There are others who will also be here because they have big contracts that are undesirable to trade for. Pagan, Scutaro, Affeldt, and Casilla. That's thirteen players right there.

[allenreed]

I'll be surprised if Affeldt is here next season. I'd like to say the same for Timmy, but I'm not sure about that.
The second group you don't describe as the core, but merely players with undesirable contracts, so really you named nine.

[sfgdood]

Why would it surprise you if Affeldt is back when Rx just informed you that his contract is highly undesireable? The Giants arent going to want to eat a contract they just signed last year. Plus, the more I see Mijares, the less I like him. Maybe he's wearing down too. At least with Jeremy we know we can throw him out there a bunch of times and he can still be good in postseason.

~Dood

[allenreed]

I've heard rumblings that Affeldt has fallen into disfavor. I assumed others had heard them too. He's hurt alot, and becoming more and more erratic. I agree that Mijares is erratic as well.

[rxmeister]

Affeldt has two years 12 million left, and after a bad season in both performance and health, there won't be a market for him. They'll be a bunch of FA relievers on the market who will make less than that, who would trade something of value for Affeldt and also take that salary. I also haven't heard anything about them being unhappy with him. Can you remember where you heard it?

[Islandboagie]

Allen- There were those here that once thought Jonathan Sanchez was a perfectly fine 5th starter. Gaudin has pitched as well as anyone we have in the starting role, yet he's not good enough.

Boagie- Sanchez was younger, had a plus fastball and a good slider. Jonathan had the stuff to be a front line starter. Unfortunately he could never really put it together except for a brief time between 2009 and parts of 2010. During that period he was better than Gaudin. Outside of that he was in and out of the bullpen and having a lot of trouble being consistent. Jonathan Sanchez benefited from having the Cy Young Tim and front line Matt Cain to carry the staff while Jonathan getting a chance to prove himself. If those guys were the same I'd be all for giving Gaudin the 5th spot next year. We don't even know who the other 4 starters will be, and you're already scraping the barrel. I hope the Giants don't intend to be as cheap as you. I'd actually like them to win.

[sharksrog]

Mark -- Whoever said half the team will turn over is way off base, I think.

Rog -- Me too. The Giants probably weren't as good as last season made it seem, and they're probably not as bad as this year does.

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[sharksrog]

Allen -- How many players do you think make up the core?

Rog -- That varies from team to team, and on one's definition of core. For the Giants, I would say the core is Bumgarner, Cain, Zito (oops!), Romo, Posey, Belt, Scutaro and Sandoval. One could remove Romo, Belt and/or Sandoval, or he could add Lincecum, Casilla, Crawford and/or Pagan.

But again, it comes down to definition perhaps more than evaluation.

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[sharksrog]

Mark -- Dodgers lost Billingsley for the year, Hanley Ramirez has been on the DL a couple of times, Kemp has been on and off the DL all year, and still they're rolling.

Rog -- But the Dodgers have a ton of TALENT -- so much that they can withstand injuries far more than most teams. There were questions about the Dodgers' chemistry, but I think the major issues were health and whether their players would continue or return to good seasons.

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[sharksrog]

I forgot all about Hunter Pence as a core player. Good grief!

[sharksrog]

If one wants to get down to the core of the core, that would seem to be Bumgarner, Cain and Posey -- all home grown.

[sharksrog]

Randy -- Plus, the more I see Mijares, the less I like him.

Rog -- Mijares and Lopez are both LOOGIES. Lopez will cost a lot of money, but he's also been darn good. Mijares has been very good when he's been good, but he's also been inconsistent. Mijares will come cheaply though, so he's still probably a pretty good value.

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[sharksrog]

Mark -- Affeldt has two years 12 million left, and after a bad season in both performance and health, there won't be a market for him. They'll be a bunch of FA relievers on the market who will make less than that, who would trade something of value for Affeldt and also take that salary.

Rog -- Southpaw relievers are in great demand -- particularly if they are considered good against right-handed hitters as well as lefty hitters. Affeldt has that reputation and thus is probably tradeable IMO.

I don't expect him back, but that could depend on what they can get for him, if they would need to eat any salary, and what they could alternatively use the money for.

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[sharksrog]

Boagie -- Jonathan had the stuff to be a front line starter. Unfortunately he could never really put it together except for a brief time between 2009 and parts of 2010.

Rog -- And here Allen has told us Jonathan was a poor pitcher in 2009. I feel so CONFLICTED!

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[sharksrog]

Boagie -- Outside of that he was in and out of the bullpen and having a lot of trouble being consistent.

Rog -- Jonathan Sanchez was darn good from his no-hitter through the end of May, 2011. I think at that point he suffered some type of physical and/or mental injury. He became a completely different pitcher, and one could almost dispense with the term "pitcher."

No question about the inconsistency, but from 2008 until he was released earlier this season, Jonathan made 129 starts and only 5 relief appearances.

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[klaiggeb]

Injuries are overrated, Boly, all teams have them. Dodgers lost Billingsley for the year, Hanley Ramirez has been on the DL a couple of times, Kemp has been on and off the DL all year, and still they're rolling. They've definitely had more injuries than us. Look at how many injuries and problems we had last year and we still won it all. We lost Panda with the hamate, and we had the killer loss of Melky Cabrera who was leading the league in hitting. Still we won it all.

---boly says---

I disagree, Mark.

The Dodgers had a lot of depth, AND, the players thrown into the void performed and performed well.

We did not have that depth, and the players thrown in... stunk.

Blanco, and Torres in particular.

The Dodgers lost Billingsley, but they went out and replaced him.

We lost Pagan... and no one stepped up.

We lost Vogey, and though Gaudin stepped up, Cain was in the process of having his WORST year ever, and Lincecum was still sliding down.

Add to that the long time loss of Casilla, and UNseason of Belt, when we needed him the most, and there you have it.

All teams get hurt, yes, teams with depth, or incredibly deep pockets can off set that.

Not to mention a roster of all stars:

Kemp, Gonzalez, Crawford, Greinke, Kershaw, Rameriz.

boly

[allenreed]

Aug 23, 2013 21:45:51 GMT -5 rxmeister said:

Affeldt has two years 12 million left, and after a bad season in both performance and health, there won't be a market for him. They'll be a bunch of FA relievers on the market who will make less than that, who would trade something of value for Affeldt and also take that salary. I also haven't heard anything about them being unhappy with him. Can you remember where you heard it?

Allen- I agree with your assessment here. I can't remember exactly where I heard it. It was just that he was erratic and hurt alot. Nothing to do with him as aperson. Everything I've heard indicates he's a great guy.

[allenreed]

Boagie- Sanchez was younger, had a plus fastball and a good slider. Jonathan had the stuff to be a front line starter.

Allen- Other than the pudding between his ears, yes he did. Gaudin throws pretty hard too though, and also has a pretty mean slider. What's more he has pretty good control and has some idea about what he's doing out there, which Sanchez never did.

We don't even know who the other 4 starters will be, and you're already scraping the barrel.

Allen- I fully expect them to retain Vogey, don't you? So we know who three of them will be. And Gaudin has outperformed two of them decidedly. You could certainly argue that he's been better than even Bummy. How does Gaudin stack up against the 5th starter on winning teams?
What comes closer to "scraping the barrel" 5-2, 3.06 or 6-13, 4.53? BTW, Gaudin's current 3.06 ERA is better than the best season Sanchez ever compiled (3.07).

I hope the Giants don't intend to be as cheap as you. I'd actually like them to win.

Allen- Alot of reasons the Giants aren't winning this year. Chad Gaudin isn't one of them. Tim Lincecum, on the other hand, is a major one.

[allenreed]

Aug 24, 2013 9:50:33 GMT -5 sharksrog said:

Boagie -- Jonathan had the stuff to be a front line starter. Unfortunately he could never really put it together except for a brief time between 2009 and parts of 2010.

Rog -- And here Allen has told us Jonathan was a poor pitcher in 2009. I feel so CONFLICTED!

Allen- No need to Rog. 8-12, 4.24=poor. BTW, while perusing baseball reference's stats on Jonathan, I found an error, something that doesn't happen often. They have his total record for 2012 as 1-9, but if you add the records up seperately, it comes out as 1-12.

[allenreed]

Aug 24, 2013 9:57:24 GMT -5 sharksrog said:

Boagie -- Outside of that he was in and out of the bullpen and having a lot of trouble being consistent.

Rog -- Jonathan Sanchez was darn good from his no-hitter through the end of May, 2011. I think at that point he suffered some type of physical and/or mental injury. He became a completely different pitcher, and one could almost dispense with the term "pitcher."

Allen- Mental injury?! All I can do is shake my head and chuckle. You're a top flight apologist, Rog.