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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:01:28 GMT -5
Rog -- My guess as to how many of Whitey's 236 victories were by fewer than four runs would be 100 or so. dk...which means that Ford was one of the best clutch pitchers of his generation Rog -- It doesn't truly speak to that one way or the other (although I suspect Whitey WAS one of the best clutch pitchers, since was one of the best pitchers overall). What it means is that he won an estimated 100 games by three runs or fewer. Matt Cain was only 7-16 in 2007 despite a 3.65 ERA. Two of those four wins were by one run; one was by two runs; and one more was by three wins. By your definition, Matt was 7-16 that season despite being a great clutch pitcher AND posting a nice 3.65 ERA. That would strongly indicate a lack of run support was the culprit, wouldn't it? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1863&page=1#ixzz2Xm5Q4lxT
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:05:20 GMT -5
Allen -- The question would be, are there any doubters out there? You keep thumping this same tub Rog, proclaiming something everyone already knows Rog -- Well, except for Don and seemingly you. You keep bringing up the old "still isn't a winner" thing without examining run support. Allen- No, it's just that you act as if it's the be all and end all for a pitcher. Rog -- Never came close to saying that, did I? You nor Don seems to have a clue as to what I think. Allen -- The only diffeence between Justin Verlander and Jonathan Sanchez is run support. Rog -- Oh, yeah. I say that every day and twice on Sunday. Today is Sunday, isn't it? The only difference between Justin Verlander and Jonathan Sanchez is run support. The only difference between Justin Verlander and Jonathanb Sanchez is run support. No WONDER you don't think I know what I'm talkiing about. You have a very strong misconception of what I think. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1863&page=1#ixzz2Xm6qu5ji
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:08:33 GMT -5
dk..you stupid little man, I said under 3.00, why do you give me examples of pitchers over 3,00 ERA..... Rog -- Because there are very few pitchers in recent years with ERA's below three, and the concepts are the same if the ERA is less than three, over three or even (as in the case of Kirk Rueter) over four. You keep using terms like "crap" and "sick" because you don't have a logical way to go, Don. Is that what your mom taught you? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1863&page=1#ixzz2Xm7uH71L
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:11:12 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:16:05 GMT -5
dk..I never met a bigot in deniel who didn't mention one Jewish friend. Rog -- Just a guess on my part, but wouldn't someone who was bigoted against Jews not want to associate with one? Until you mentioned it, I never really thought about whether of my friends were Jewish or not. Why should it matter? I strongly prefer them to be good people rather than bad ones, but what difference does it make what color or creed they are? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1863&page=1#ixzz2Xm9OfqRT
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:19:19 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:21:44 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:23:49 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:25:19 GMT -5
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 1, 2013 2:27:17 GMT -5
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jul 1, 2013 13:16:24 GMT -5
donk - well, IRS-Key supervisor, conservative republican, hired by Bush...
Dood - I can't recall any big scandal involving IRS targeting liberal groups back under Bush. And the IRS director certainly didn't make over 100 visits to the White House under Bush (it was more like a handful). The IRS is supposed to be a nonpartisan nonpolitical department. It has only become political under Obama.
donk - spying...started by Bush....
Dood - if you refer to the Patriot Act, that was very DIRECTED investigating (not spying) of those known to have ties to terrorist groups. That wasnt overreaching spying on ALL Americans regardless of what their past affiliations. And it wasn't taking out warrants on the unfriendly press (and their families). BIG difference.
donk - and all the other things that lightweights like you bring up...no scandle at all....and you nut cases that tried to blame Bush's recession on Obama,
Dood - Didn't absolve Bush of his responsibility for the recession beginning. Just didn't give Obama a pass for making it worse instead of better. But this isn't part of the scandal cavalcade now dogging Obama's already tarnished legacy.
You left out gunrunning to Mexican Cartels and leaving our Embassy in Benghazi without security and without aid when it was calling for it before and after the attack begun on September 11 last year. Both of these events later were and now continue to be covered up by the DOJ and the State Department.
~Dood
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donk
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Post by donk on Jul 1, 2013 14:00:02 GMT -5
dk..you stupid little man, I said under 3.00, why do you give me examples of pitchers over 3,00 ERA..... Rog -- Because there are very few pitchers in recent years with ERA's below three, and the concepts are the same if the ERA is less than three, over three or even (as in the case of Kirk Rueter) over four. You keep using terms like "crap" and "sick" because you don't have a logical way to go, Don. Is that what your mom taught you? dk..my mother died on my 12th birthday, and I not only would swear at you, I would punch you in the face if you ever mention her again...you fat, old SOB....I tried to be reasonable with you , but you insist on twisting the conversation around ...we are talking about Whitey Ford with a very low ERA and yet you try to slant his record to indicate he was only a winner and that it was due to run support....you got me so pissed, but I can understand that any one that works all the jobs you claim to have done at the same time has no feeling at humans...it surprised me that it took your wife so long to kick your rear out of the house as you probably had very little time to devote to her....stick to facts and my swearing will decrease but there is nothing like a liar to set me off.... The concept of saying a pitcher owns his record due to run support is demeaning to someone like Ford who allowed fewer than 3 runs a game....when you are 4.00 ERA pitcher with a good W-L record, than you can look to see what run support had to do with it...I proved to you once that although Cain had a low ERA and a bad W-L record, it wasn't t enough to blame it on lack of run support because in that one year, he won every game that he pitched well and lost the games he didn't do the same....you can't look at total run support, because many runs are in blow out games and are of no indication of the caliber of the winning pitcher...but when you lump a 1-0 game into wins by one run and say they are due to run support, than you are not using the term it was indicated to mean...run support, to me, is when a pitcher wins a game that he is only average or above his ERA and the team bails him out with a slew of runs than you can say he won due to run support....and you still haven't explained how you can take a one year example for Ford and say he won half his games by one or two runs and expanded to his career and say he won half his game by FOUR runs ..typical nerd twisting...and pitchers who win a lot of games by one run is usually some pitcher....
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 2, 2013 9:28:50 GMT -5
Don -- The concept of saying a pitcher owns his record due to run support is demeaning to someone like Ford who allowed fewer than 3 runs a game.... Rog -- What a pitcher owes he record to comes primarily from his own pitching, run support, the support of his bullpen and the support of his fielders. Don -- when you are 4.00 ERA pitcher with a good W-L record, than you can look to see what run support had to do with it.. Rog -- I did, with Kirk Rueter. His excellent record -- best ever by a SF Giants southpaw IIRC -- came more from great run support than from good pitching. Don -- .I proved to you once that although Cain had a low ERA and a bad W-L record, it wasn't t enough to blame it on lack of run support because in that one year, he won every game that he pitched well and lost the games he didn't do the same.... Rog -- It was a very small sample that didn't truly prove anything. Don -- you can't look at total run support, because many runs are in blow out games and are of no indication of the caliber of the winning pitcher... Rog -- Your point is a good one, but over a large sample, those fluctuations tend to even themselves out. Total run support isn't perfect, but it is easily obtained and is pretty accurate in larger samples. Don -- but when you lump a 1-0 game into wins by one run and say they are due to run support, than you are not using the term it was indicated to mean... Rog -- If one looks closely at a 1-0 game, he sees that the win HURTS his run support average and improves his ERA. As it should, winning a 1-0 games makes the pitcher look better and his run support look worse. That DOUBLY makes him look like a better pitcher -- again as it should when he is able to win a 1-0 game. Don run support, to me, is when a pitcher wins a game that he is only average or above his ERA and the team bails him out with a slew of runs than you can say he won due to run support.... Rog -- Run support is the number of runs his team scores while a starter is in the game. If yhou go to baseball-reference.com, that is what you will find for run support. Don -- and you still haven't explained how you can take a one year example for Ford and say he won half his games by one or two runs and expanded to his career and say he won half his game by FOUR runs ..typical nerd twisting... Rog -- Except that I didn't say that, Don. Go back and re-read my posts and you will see that you have misinterpreted. Don -- and pitchers who win a lot of games by one run is usually some pitcher Rog -- Of course. With the exception of a forfeit, no starter has ever lost a game in which he allowed no runs. No pitcher has ever won a game in which his team didn't score any. In between are all kinds of combinations of runs allowed and run support -- with a sprinkle of defense and relief pitching. Runs allowed and run support are obviously the two most important factors in a pitcher's won-loss record, and defense and relief pitching both affect how many runs the pitcher yields. If you want to get an idea of a starter's won-loss percentage, just look at the runs he allowed and at his run support. If the run support is higher than his runs allowed, he almost always will be a .500 or better pitcher. If the runs allowed are higher than the run support, he almost always will be a 500 pitcher or worse. So the fewer runs a pitcher allows, the better his record will be, and the more runs his team scores for him, the better it will. Isn't that rather obvious? Both runs allowed by a starter and his run support have significant effects on his record. Whitey Ford has the highest winning percentage of any starter both because he was a great pitcher and because he had excellent run support. His winning percentage is better than Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Christy Mathewson and all the other greats. It is better not because he was a better pitcher than they, but because he received better run support. Had he NOT been a great pitcher, he wouldn't have won more often than they. Nor would he had he NOT received excellent run support. But that is why he had the best won-loss record ever, even though there were better pitchers than Whitey. This is kind of like with Sandy Koufax. It isn't that they weren't great; they both were. But each was aided by at least one factor beyond his own control. And that's not to say that there haven't been HUNDREDS of pitchers who have benefitted from factors beyond their control. They have. Run support is one of those factors. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1863&page=2#12225#ixzz2XtgU0dEU
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donk
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Post by donk on Jul 2, 2013 16:00:56 GMT -5
donk - well, IRS-Key supervisor, conservative republican, hired by Bush... Dood - I can't recall any big scandal involving IRS targeting liberal groups back under Bush. And the IRS director certainly didn't make over 100 visits to the White House under Bush (it was more like a handful). The IRS is supposed to be a nonpartisan nonpolitical department. It has only become political under Obama. dk..the Inspector General said there was nothing wrong...the IRS reports to the Treasure Sec. in the White House....all requests for polital activist groups were lumped together so they could be handled the same...that included Progressive Groups and well as tea party..so once more you are full of crap....Reagan and Nixon both used the IRS to hound their so called enemy.... donk - spying...started by Bush.... Dood - if you refer to the Patriot Act, that was very DIRECTED investigating (not spying) of those known to have ties to terrorist groups. That wasnt overreaching spying on ALL Americans regardless of what their past affiliations. And it wasn't taking out warrants on the unfriendly press (and their families). BIG difference. dk...it was so directed that some of the action had to be cancelled when it came to light...no, they didn't take out warrents, they wire tapped without warrents...biiiiiiig difference...and Obama did not LISTEN to the messages, only listed who called who...same info that is on your telephone bill every month.... donk - and all the other things that lightweights like you bring up...no scandle at all....and you nut cases that tried to blame Bush's recession on Obama, Dood - Didn't absolve Bush of his responsibility for the recession beginning. Just didn't give Obama a pass for making it worse instead of better. But this isn't part of the scandal cavalcade now dogging Obama's already tarnished legacy. dk..you got your info very, very wrong...Obama didn't make anything worse, he just was hindered by the just say no Republican congress from passing the job bills...he turned things around, but too slow for us, but much better than it was... You left out gunrunning to Mexican Cartels and leaving our Embassy in Benghazi without security and without aid when it was calling for it before and after the attack begun on September 11 last year. Both of these events later were and now continue to be covered up by the DOJ and the State Department. dk...the original sale of guns to the drug people in Mexico was started under Bush...and it was supposed to be a trap..the same idiots tried it out under Obama..open your eyes...again you got your facts wrong...the Embassy was not in Benghazi, it was in Tripoli...and it was guarded...what those guys were doing in Benghazi remains a puzzle to me...we have the FBI and the House blow hards investigating and still haven't found any wrong doing...and the Republicans cut the budget for guarding our people over seas....you remain so full of the obese druggies crap it is inexcusable for a normal person...even the extreme right wing has backed off the things you brought up.... ~Dood
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sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Jul 2, 2013 17:26:37 GMT -5
dk..the Inspector General said there was nothing wrong...the IRS reports to the Treasure Sec. in the White House....all requests for polital activist groups were lumped together so they could be handled the same...that included Progressive Groups and well as tea party..so once more you are full of crap....Reagan and Nixon both used the IRS to hound their so called enemy....
Dood - Oh really? Then why is it the IRS director under Bush (or any other president) never come close to 100 visits to the White House? There must be a reason and I doubt it's a good one, knowing this IRS. Never heard of any kind of harassment like this under any other president. And not one progressive group has come forward to complain about treatment like this. You obviously believe any Obama spin that comes out. Funny that you only take liberals at their word and not conservatives.
donk - spying...started by Bush....
Dood - if you refer to the Patriot Act, that was very DIRECTED investigating (not spying) of those known to have ties to terrorist groups. That wasnt overreaching spying on ALL Americans regardless of what their past affiliations. And it wasn't taking out warrants on the unfriendly press (and their families). BIG difference.
dk...it was so directed that some of the action had to be cancelled when it came to light...
Dood - Well if it came to light, what possible good info could it produce once the subject is aware? Use your noodle, man.
no, they didn't take out warrents, they wire tapped without warrents...biiiiiiig difference...
Dood - Is that supposed to be better? And anyway, they DID call for warrants of records on the Fox reporter and his family...that's why Holder had to be called back before congress again where he lied as usual.
and Obama did not LISTEN to the messages, only listed who called who...same info that is on your telephone bill every month....
Dood - So he says...but with all that's going on why would any free thinking individual take this administration at its word? Do you really believe the NSA gained access to our emails only to see who we communicated with, without scanning the content? You're more trusting than I...at least when it comes to liberals.
Dood - Didn't absolve Bush of his responsibility for the recession beginning. Just didn't give Obama a pass for making it worse instead of better. But this isn't part of the scandal cavalcade now dogging Obama's already tarnished legacy.
dk..you got your info very, very wrong...Obama didn't make anything worse, he just was hindered by the just say no Republican congress from passing the job bills...he turned things around, but too slow for us, but much better than it was...
Dood - Wow you need to ease up on the BO koolaid, brother...Dems held both houses of congress for the first two years of his reign...and things got worse. You can blame tea baggers all you want but you can't get past that one. Sounds like someone is just inept at leadership. Those are the ones that blame everyone but themselves.
Dood - You left out gunrunning to Mexican Cartels and leaving our Embassy in Benghazi without security and without aid when it was calling for it before and after the attack begun on September 11 last year. Both of these events later were and now continue to be covered up by the DOJ and the State Department.
dk...the original sale of guns to the drug people in Mexico was started under Bush...and it was supposed to be a trap..the same idiots tried it out under Obama..open your eyes...again you got your facts wrong...
Dood - Really? Then why is Holder stonewalling giving up the documents? You think they might punch a big fat hole in their story so far? Could be...And can you NEVER stop with the Blaming Bush and comparing with Bush thing? Do you not see that by comparing Obama to Bush you make them equally bad? And as bad as Bush might have been he never had to cover up like this after promising full transparency.
the Embassy was not in Benghazi, it was in Tripoli...and it was guarded...what those guys were doing in Benghazi remains a puzzle to me...
Dood - Is that all you got left? Semantics? Ok, technically it was a "diplomatic compound" not an Embassy, but the Ambassador was staying there and requested beefed up security and instead it got downsized. Hillary turned him down and his blood is on her hands. Which is why I have no worry about her as a future candidate.
we have the FBI and the House blow hards investigating and still haven't found any wrong doing
Dood - FBI isnt investigating the cover up, they are investigating the actual attack. It will take a whistle blower brave enough to lose his job before we find out what really happened...but when that does happen, all the dominoes will fall.
...and the Republicans cut the budget for guarding our people over seas....
Dood - Uh no...Sequestration was Obama's idea. And btw...sequestration cuts the budget about 30 times less than Obama's vacation in Africa is costing.
you remain so full of the obese druggies crap it is inexcusable for a normal person...even the extreme right wing has backed off the things you brought up....
Dood - As Ive told you many times, I don't listen to El Rushbo (his show isn't aired locally), so it would be difficult for me to be full of his "crap." But it is clear you are full of the droppings spewed by MSNBC. And the only things I brought up are what's still being investigated by Congress...and yet is ignored by the Lamestream Media.
~Dood
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Post by allenreed on Jul 2, 2013 21:07:50 GMT -5
That's Don's "go to" response. It makes little sense, as we've both told him repeatedly that we don't listen to Rush, but he persists anyway. Another slab of incompetence and duplicity was served up today when the administration announced the employer mandate for Obamacare would be postponed for a year. Or until after the midterms. Things that make you go Hmmmmm. Obamacare, which is Obama's signature legislation, is an absolute trainwreck. And the train is pointed right at working class America.
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donk
New Member
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Post by donk on Jul 2, 2013 21:44:01 GMT -5
Oboma care is working great so far....my grand daughter got her insurance policy after remaining on my daughter's policy until she was 26....all major new laws requiring tweeking...how many Ammendments do we have to the Constitution??? you left wing nuts may not listen to the obese druggie directly, but it is echoed by every Fox repeater of his saying ....
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donk
New Member
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Post by donk on Jul 2, 2013 21:48:29 GMT -5
dk..I never met a bigot in deniel who didn't mention one Jewish friend. Rog -- Just a guess on my part, but wouldn't someone who was bigoted against Jews not want to associate with one? Until you mentioned it, I never really thought about whether of my friends were Jewish or not. Why should it matter? I strongly prefer them to be good people rather than bad ones, but what difference does it make what color or creed they are? dk..why were you so quick to point out that you had a "friend" who was Jewish??? I could care less....come to think of it, I have almost all non-Jewish friends....the Jewish guys have all passed away....
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donk
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Post by donk on Jul 2, 2013 21:51:20 GMT -5
dk...I don't think it was ever a secrete that Dolph was Jewish... Rog -- What was it that Dolph secreted that made it obvious he was Jewish? You seem to care a lot whether people are Jewish or not, while I just considered everyone to be a person. You know what my favorite race is? The human race. Well, except for the Indy 500 and the Kentucky Derby, of course. dk..you don't know anyones religion so it is just a coincidence that out of the blue you right something belittling an athlete who happens to be in the HOF and Jewish...]
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donk
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Post by donk on Jul 2, 2013 21:56:31 GMT -5
Don -- but then what your saying that any game a pitcher wins 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 should be credited to the team for run support and not to the pitcher for pitching a good game.... Rog -- Of COURSE I'm not saying that. How in the world could you even come CLOSE to believing that? dk..then why the heck did you talk about Ford winning half his games by 1,2,3 or 4 runs and he w3on because he had run support......of course yo said he won half his games by 1 or 2 runs in your sample year...you never explained how you went from 1or 2 to 1 thru 4......
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donk
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Post by donk on Jul 2, 2013 21:59:03 GMT -5
Don -- so we throw out won-lost record and measure pitchers only by what ever the latest code word is in the nerd world of numbers. Rog -- We don't throw out won-loss record, but we do realize it is more a team stat than an individual one. We realize that for a starting pitcher, ERA is a FAR better measure. dk..which makes Ford one of the best ever....
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donk
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Post by donk on Jul 2, 2013 22:08:56 GMT -5
do you really think that tonight's no hitter wasn't a pitchers win even with very little "winning" help from his team..good run support...not really, a major league team is supposed to between 4 and 5 runs per game.....no exceptional plays, etc...some great pitching though.....
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 2, 2013 22:58:43 GMT -5
dk..you don't know anyones religion so it is just a coincidence that out of the blue you right something belittling an athlete who happens to be in the HOF and Jewish...] Rog -- Well, DUH. After you brought it up, I DID remember that Sandy was Jewish, because I had respected him for not pitching on Jewish holidays. Prior to that, I had completely forgotten his religion -- since who the heck cares anyway? As for belittling him, if the worst thing I said about him was that he was great but probably not quite as great as his Dodger Stadium numbers made him appear, I'm willing to live with "belittling" him. Incidentally, while I have said he was also a great pitcher on the road those years, you have never offered an explanation as to why his Dodger Stadium ERA was so much better than his ERA in other parks. I wish you would offer more substance in your arguments on the various subjects we discuss. You DO come up with some good ideas. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1863&page=2#12247#ixzz2Xx2fzOJz
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 2, 2013 23:03:06 GMT -5
Don -- so we throw out won-lost record and measure pitchers only by what ever the latest code word is in the nerd world of numbers. Rog -- We don't throw out won-loss record, but we do realize it is more a team stat than an individual one. We realize that for a starting pitcher, ERA is a FAR better measure. dk..which makes Ford one of the best ever.... Rog -- Absolutely. Based on ERA, he was likely the best pitcher of his time. About the only knock one can put on him (and then only in a Hall of Fame sense) is that he pitched just over 3000 innings. Based on won-loss percentage alone, though, he would be THE greatest of all time. And that would be giving him too much credit in the mind of most. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1863&page=2#ixzz2Xx48s0BK
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 2, 2013 23:12:31 GMT -5
Don -- do you really think that tonight's no hitter wasn't a pitchers win even with very little "winning" help from his team..good run support...not really, a major league team is supposed to between 4 and 5 runs per game.....no exceptional plays, etc...some great pitching though..... Rog -- Of COURSE not. He pitched a marvelous game and got below-average run support. Why did you even ask the question? Bailey has actually demonstrated the importance of run support this season. He entered tonight's game just 4-6 despite a 3.88 ERA -- primarily because he had received just 37 runs of support while yielding 45 runs. Now the ratio is 40-45, and he's up to 5-6. Intriguingly, Homer has pitched better this season by nearly a run per game compared to 2011 -- yet he is below .500 this season due to receiving even less run support than he has given up, while in 2011 he went 9-7 because he received 91 runs of support to cover up the 68 runs he yielded. If you believe that Kirk Rueter was a better pitcher than Matt Cain, don't feel bad about under-emphasizing the importance of run support. Instead, feel bad that you underrate Matt and/or overrate Kirk. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1863&page=2#ixzz2Xx4yqFDo
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Post by allenreed on Jul 3, 2013 11:59:38 GMT -5
Oboma care is working great so far....my grand daughter got her insurance policy after remaining on my daughter's policy until she was 26....all major new laws requiring tweeking...how many Ammendments do we have to the Constitution??? you left wing nuts may not listen to the obese druggie directly, but it is echoed by every Fox repeater of his saying Allen- You seem to know more about Rush than anyone hear. Are you a listener? If you know what we're saying is echoing Rush, you must know what Rush is saying. Obamacare is the worst piece of legislation ever written. The people who wrote it don't even know what's in it and have no idea how to implement it. It's totally unworkable. But it does accomplish what Obama wants it to. It kills American business and jobs. And on top of that, he wants the criminals at the IRS to implement it. In fact the person in charge of implementing it should be in jail. Instead she was promoted by Obama. Everything Obama does is designed to weaken the US. Militarily, economically, morally. Right on down the line. And again, it all comes with a political bent. They postponed Obamacare until after the midterms because he knows that when people see what it's really about, any Dem who voted for it will get tossed out on their ear. Obama couldn't care less about doing his job correctly, or doing what's best for the country. All he cares about is what is best for him politically.
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Post by allenreed on Jul 3, 2013 12:03:44 GMT -5
do you really think that tonight's no hitter wasn't a pitchers win even with very little "winning" help from his team..good run support...not really, a major league team is supposed to between 4 and 5 runs per game.....no exceptional plays, etc...some great pitching though Allen- What great pitching? All Bailey did was stand out there and heave fastballs. We were just too feeble to hit them, and how many did we chase out of the zone? It was more piss poor hitting than great pitching.
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Post by sharksrog on Jul 3, 2013 12:13:15 GMT -5
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donk
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Post by donk on Jul 3, 2013 12:24:05 GMT -5
Oboma care is working great so far....my grand daughter got her insurance policy after remaining on my daughter's policy until she was 26....all major new laws requiring tweeking...how many Ammendments do we have to the Constitution??? you left wing nuts may not listen to the obese druggie directly, but it is echoed by every Fox repeater of his saying Allen- You seem to know more about Rush than anyone hear. Are you a listener? If you know what we're saying is echoing Rush, you must know what Rush is saying. Obamacare is the worst piece of legislation ever written. The people who wrote it don't even know what's in it and have no idea how to implement it. It's totally unworkable. But it does accomplish what Obama wants it to. It kills American business and jobs. And on top of that, he wants the criminals at the IRS to implement it. In fact the person in charge of implementing it should be in jail. Instead she was promoted by Obama. Everything Obama does is designed to weaken the US. Militarily, economically, morally. Right on down the line. And again, it all comes with a political bent. They postponed Obamacare until after the midterms because he knows that when people see what it's really about, any Dem who voted for it will get tossed out on their ear. Obama couldn't care less about doing his job correctly, or doing what's best for the country. All he cares about is what is best for him politically. dk..Allen, go back to baseball, you know so little about what is going on in the world it is embarrassing..,.,for one thing, the only function of the IRS in Oboma care is to make sure that the Insurance companies follow the law on their profits being a % of their gross.....the stock market is booming, he is about to end the second Bush war...and no WMD found yet....the armed services is stronger that the summation of all major countries, the only thing holding the economy hostage is the tea party repugs in house and the fillerbusters in the senate....talk baseball and don't us how stupid you are about politics...
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donk
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Post by donk on Jul 3, 2013 12:57:57 GMT -5
Don -- do you really think that tonight's no hitter wasn't a pitchers win even with very little "winning" help from his team..good run support...not really, a major league team is supposed to between 4 and 5 runs per game.....no exceptional plays, etc...some great pitching though..... Rog -- Of COURSE not. He pitched a marvelous game and got below-average run support. Why did you even ask the question? Bailey has actually demonstrated the importance of run support this season. He entered tonight's game just 4-6 despite a 3.88 ERA -- primarily because he had received just 37 runs of support while yielding 45 runs. Now the ratio is 40-45, and he's up to 5-6. Intriguingly, Homer has pitched better this season by nearly a run per game compared to 2011 -- yet he is below .500 this season due to receiving even less run support than he has given up, while in 2011 he went 9-7 because he received 91 runs of support to cover up the 68 runs he yielded. If you believe that Kirk Rueter was a better pitcher than Matt Cain, don't feel bad about under-emphasizing the importance of run support. Instead, feel bad that you underrate Matt and/or overrate Kirk. dk..why do you keep mentioning Kirk to me, he isn't part of the discussion..I never made the lie you just repeated that I said Kirk was a better pitcher..in fact I said Matt should have been the ace, not Tim....and that one year I checked and showed you, Matt won the games he pitches well, and lost the ones he didn't...you seem to forget that little detail.... let's talk Homer Bailey and how you can twist stats around to make silly points...Homer won 5 games by giving up a totasl of 6 runs while the Reds scored 35....big benefactor of run support oe good pitching???....He lost 6 games with the Reds scoring very few runs, but he gave up enough runs for a 7.83 ERA..in only one game did he pitch well enough to win, but lost1-0...his no-decisions were split, 2 he pitched good enough to win, 2 border line and 2 he probably should have lost....you want to argue the pro's and cons of a pitcher, fine, but don't throw out a bunch of meaningless stats....
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