sfgdood
Long time member
stats geeks never played the game...that's why they don't get it and never will
Posts: 90
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Post by sfgdood on Mar 12, 2013 13:23:40 GMT -5
oh and one other thing that's always bothered me...can Rog or anyone else give me a solid explanation why a catcher has to "ask" for an appeal of a call on a swing/no swing from the 1st or 3rd base umpires? That should just be that umpire's automatic duty. Let that umpire watch the swing and let the home plate umpire keep his concentration on the pitch location. I mean if a catcher fails to ask, or if a swing was ruled to have been taken when it clearly had not been, that base umpire will just stand there knowing the call was blown and not say anything at all...how is THAT right?
~Dood
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Post by Islandboagie on Mar 12, 2013 15:03:43 GMT -5
Allen- The guy who impressed me was the umpire (Jim Joyce?) who blew the call on Armando Gallaraga's perfect game for the Tigers a while back. He seemed genuinely distressed that he blew the call and apologized to the player. I think that showed alot. Not alot of umpires would do that.
Boagie- And that's why I don't want to replace them with computers. Jim Joyce is a class act and considered one of the best umpires in the game, it's him I think of when people talk about replacing umpires, not Gary Darling. I'd be fine with replacing Darling, West or Hernandez with a computer, heck, the way they umpire you could replace them with a monkey. But the good or decent umpires heavily outweigh the bad ones.
Back to Joyce, I think that moment when Galarraga came out to give Joyce the lineup card was one of the greatest moments in sports history. It showed great sportmanship by both Galarraga, Joyce, and the fans. The night before all the so-called baseball analysts crucified Joyce for the call, over and over and over again. The next day the Detroit fans proved to be more forgiving and classy than the analysts, and gave Joyce a standing ovation.
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donk
New Member
Posts: 23
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Post by donk on Mar 13, 2013 0:13:38 GMT -5
oh and one other thing that's always bothered me...can Rog or anyone else give me a solid explanation why a catcher has to "ask" for an appeal of a call on a swing/no swing from the 1st or 3rd base umpires? That should just be that umpire's automatic duty. Let that umpire watch the swing and let the home plate umpire keep his concentration on the pitch location. I mean if a catcher fails to ask, or if a swing was ruled to have been taken when it clearly had not been, that base umpire will just stand there knowing the call was blown and not say anything at all...how is THAT right? dk...that was the way Umps worked before TV....the base umpire would move a hand to his lapel (ie.) to indicate a swing.....now we go thru the drama calls....
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 13, 2013 19:52:52 GMT -5
Randy -- In response to Rog's statement that there are no arguments over balls and strikes because of the "automatic ejection" rule, you must not watch very many games because even if there are no full blown shouting matches, there is plenty of argument that goes on over balls and strikes that doesn't result in ejection and rightly so. Batters walk out of the box for a long time, catchers hold their mitt still for a long period of time after catching a pitch, pitchers stare an ump down or go for a walk around the mound, coaches yell from the dugout. This happens a lot when a umpire's strike zone is inconsistent. Rog -- You're right, Randy. In fact, I've never watched a game in my life. By the way, you described what happens very well. As you point out, there are no full blown shouting matches. In fact, when is the last time you saw a manager come out of the dugout and actually argue a ball or strike? Once in a great while, I've seen a manager come out to ask a question, but if he comes out and actually argues a call, he's gone. And, really, a manager can't tell whether a pitch is inside or outside. I have seen Bruce Bochy say so. He does say that he will complain to support his batter's reaction. Randy -- That's what would be nice about a computer generated zone...consistency. That and the computer has no ability to have its zone effected by fan, coach or player pressure. Rog -- I have officiated various sports, and I have gone out of my way to be sure I wasn't affected by any of that. Subconsciously, I don't think anyone can say for sure. But gosh, if an amateur official like me works hard not to be influenced by anything but what actually happens, you think a professional doesn't work at least as hard? Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1599&page=1#ixzz2NTEOJItY
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 13, 2013 20:00:45 GMT -5
Randy -- oh and one other thing that's always bothered me...can Rog or anyone else give me a solid explanation why a catcher has to "ask" for an appeal of a call on a swing/no swing from the 1st or 3rd base umpires? That should just be that umpire's automatic duty. Let that umpire watch the swing and let the home plate umpire keep his concentration on the pitch location. I mean if a catcher fails to ask, or if a swing was ruled to have been taken when it clearly had not been, that base umpire will just stand there knowing the call was blown and not say anything at all...how is THAT right? Rog -- Can't say I disagree with you regarding having the base umpire make the call, but I had only one appeal for a strike upheld. I didn't think it was that hard to make the call, since the umpire can see it with his periferal vision. There are a lot of ball calls that get turned into strikes, but I wonder if the home plate umpire calls a ball on the close ones, much as football officials now try not to blow their whistle on close fumble calls. Maybe not, and perhaps the call is harder than it seems to me. The one call I DID think was difficult was when the catcher stood up to make a throw before the pitch crossed the plate. In that case, the umpire can't actually see where the ball is when it crosses the plane of the plate. He has to extrapolate the location from where the ball was when he last saw it. The one thing that most bothers me on the appeal to the first or third base umpire is that the batter isn't allowed to initiate it. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1599&page=2#ixzz2NTGhrYnJ
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 13, 2013 20:03:27 GMT -5
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