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Post by sharksrog on Mar 3, 2013 20:17:52 GMT -5
dk..I rate the fielding of Posey based on the Fielding Bible Rog -- Actually, you don't. If you are using John Dewan (author of the biennial Fielding Bible), he ranked Buster #5. If you are using the 10-person panel who vote for the Fielding Bible Awards, they ranked Buster #5. You point out that many of the 10 voted Buster below #5, and one or two didn't even rate him in their top 10. But if a guy finishes #5 in the MVP voting, is he disqualified if someone leaves him off their ballot entirely? Even in the Hall of Fame voting, it takes a 75% vote -- not anything near 100% -- to get in. I don't believe anyone has EVER received 100% of the vote, which means more than one person left off his ballot who still got into the Hall. Give us your opinion, but don't say you are rating the fielding of Posey based on the Fielding Bible. You seem to be rating it based on your own convoluted evaluation of how others rate him. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1575&page=1#ixzz2MWrSoAZp |
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donk
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Post by donk on Mar 3, 2013 20:17:58 GMT -5
If I confused 2 shows, I apologize...however, all I did was give my reasons for putting Trout ahead of Posey...which are my opinions.....and I would think the guys in the show might be thinking along the same lines....
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 3, 2013 20:20:26 GMT -5
dk..must be tough, but you sure as crap can't argue the results even after seeing the show... Rog -- Of course anyone can -- whether he has seen the show or not. Any argument is the better for having seen the show and knowing their method of evaluation. Don -- besides, I think I am as qualified as you are to rate players... Rog -- I don't think anyone has said otherwise. Mostly, I think you are less objective than others. Don -- and I don't have to see some show to shape my opinion.... Rog -- Duh. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1575&page=1#ixzz2MWtmW4AA |
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 3, 2013 20:25:36 GMT -5
Don -- If I confused 2 shows, I apologize... Rog -- Apology accepted and appreciated. Don -- however, all I did was give my reasons for putting Trout ahead of Posey...which are my opinions.....and I would think the guys in the show might be thinking along the same lines.... Rog -- I too would put Mike ahead of Buster -- although Mike's lack of a MAJOR LEAGUE track record is at least a small concern. The way Mike hit, hit for power, ran, and fielded combined in a manner that indicated he was unique though. For those who like to advance runners, not only was Mike arguably the best base stealer in baseball, he also was right at the top in advancing on hits. As for whether the other guys are thinking along the same lines as you, as a former co-worker of mine said, it's hard to say without knowing for sure. My guess is that some of their thinking is similar to yours, and some isn't. Read more: sfgiantsmessageboard.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1575&page=2#ixzz2MWuKV7W5 |
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donk
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Post by donk on Mar 3, 2013 20:36:00 GMT -5
dk..I rate the fielding of Posey based on the Fielding Bible Rog -- Actually, you don't. If you are using John Dewan (author of the biennial Fielding Bible), he ranked Buster #5. If you are using the 10-person panel who vote for the Fielding Bible Awards, they ranked Buster #5. You point out that many of the 10 voted Buster below #5, and one or two didn't even rate him in their top 10. But if a guy finishes #5 in the MVP voting, is he disqualified if someone leaves him off their ballot entirely? Even in the Hall of Fame voting, it takes a 75% vote -- not anything near 100% -- to get in. I don't believe anyone has EVER received 100% of the vote, which means more than one person left off his ballot who still got into the Hall. Give us your opinion, but don't say you are rating the fielding of Posey based on the Fielding Bible. You seem to be rating it based on your own convoluted evaluation of how others rate him. dk..and you completely ignore the individual ratings that had Posey 16th and not listed in the top 9 of catchers.....the one he was rated 5th is just what I said...3 guys rated him up, the rest rating him much lower and because the voting was so split, he finished 5th...since you have the book, why not give the titles of the 3 lists we are talking about....one was Wins by Catcher (?)..he was listed at even wins v. loses for 16th on the list....the other was "Runs Saved by Catcher" he didn't make the top 9 or the bottom 5...some where in between....in the list (UN-Named) he got a 3, 4, 5, and 6 votes much lower, including 3 not even rated, as only the top 10 are listed....does that really give him bragging rights?  ? |
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donk
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Post by donk on Mar 3, 2013 20:40:02 GMT -5
I'm just not really seeing it, Rog. Trout put up good numbers, but he was also playing in a bandbox. Posey's K/BB never eclipsed a 2/1 ratio, Trout already has. And like I said before, the pitchers haven't made the adjustment yet. I think Mike Trout's talent is getting a boost from the SABR analytics which are miscalculated IMO. His stats are very good, but His OPS + and WAR are the two stats that seem to point to him being better than the rest. dk..Angels' Stadium is rated as a pitchers park....it sure isn't a band-box.... |
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Post by allenreed on Mar 3, 2013 21:38:47 GMT -5
Wasn't the show called "The Top 100 Players Right Now"?
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 3, 2013 22:57:59 GMT -5
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Post by allenreed on Mar 4, 2013 11:28:30 GMT -5
Check again. I could be wrong, but according to their website, I'm not.
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Post by sharksrog on Mar 4, 2013 14:52:27 GMT -5
If you checked on the website, I stand corrected.
There are many ways to define the "best player." I do know that on the "10 Best Right Now," the rating was done based on expected performance of the players in the 2013 season.
And I know that the Top 100 criteria were:
. Past three seasons.
. Projected 2013
. Position premium
. Honors
. Intangibles (including injuries)
One could certainly argue against Mike Trout as the best player in baseball. What if he has a sophomore slump?
Auguring on his behalf though are that his season was arguably better than Mickey Mantle's 20-year-old season and clearly better than Willie Mays'.
Trout has only the one season in the majors (plus several games in 2011), but he put up outstanding numbers in the minors despite being quite young for the level at which he played.
At age 18, he was rated the #85 overall prospect by Baseball America. At 19 and 20 he jumped to #2 and #3.
If I could take any one player for 2013, would it be Trout? Well, he was probably the best player in baseball last season, and he did it at age 20, which is extremely rare. I might hedge with another player, but I'm not sure who it would be.
Buster Posey would be a consideration. Miguel Cabrera. Bryce Harper. Clayton Kershaw (although it's really tough for a pitcher to truly be the best player in baseball). Andrew McCutcheon.
Evan Longoria might break out. Stephen Strasburg (see note on Kershaw).
Perhaps Robinson Cano, who certainly was right up there last season. Troy Tulowitzky if he can stay healthy. Matt Kemp. Giancarlo Stanton. Possibly Albert Pujols can explode back. Some might consider Craig Kimbrell, although it is REALLY tough for a closer to be the best in the game.
I've probably missed a few.
But one thing I realized through all this is that there is no dearth of stars and superstars in today's game.
The one thing that is going to make it tough for some of these guys to make the Hall of Fame in the voting is that the field of qualified eligibles is growing quickly.
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